Skill system for S&S 2e?

[daddystabz]

I am loving S&S 2e right now. I find it almost perfect for classic Trek and want to adapt it for playing Abrams-verse Trek as well. The only thing I feel lacking in is that there are only 4 fundamental skills in the game. I find myself longing for a real skill system. I want something like this to explain things like why Kirk is such an amazing commanding officer, why Sulu is so good as a helmsman, why Chekov is the best weapons console guy in the fleet, why another guy is such a great pilot. I think I would find this more satisfying than just trying to shoehorn all this stuff into the existing 4 skills.

What do you think? Have you seen a skills system created yet for S&S 2e?

[Wizardawn]

The implementation of a "skill system" usually isn't covered by these types of games due to the period in gaming they are meant to emulate. These games work on a simple "just tell me what you want to do in this situation" type gaming where one does not need to worry about a skill to do the action. That is not to say these games are 100% skill-less. A player, playing a fighter (thinking of a fantasy game at the moment) cannot simply say "I want to cast a spell" as they do not have that "skill" to do it. A player, with a wizard, cannot say "I pick up the two-handed sword and swing it at the goblin" as they do not have the "skill" to do such a feat. This was the limit of such use for a "skill system" back then. They later added the Thief class which then brought the game into a small handful of "skills" which have a dice mechanic involved (unlike the first two examples which were simply..."you can't do that!"). These new skills focused on a particular area (pick lock, find traps, etc) and even though it brought a new dynamic to the game...they were easy to use. AD&D 1e (and more prominent in 2e) had a list of skills that many of us didn't want to use. Things like cooking or camping were just something that was not important and we just wanted any character to be able to do anyway. I used the "fantasy game" example because it was easier to get the point across about the methodology with these types of games. S&S takes this up a notch by introducing the skill system it has in place...but it does provide a "class" in the end (scientist, engineer, security, etc). Keeping it vague like this allows for a group of 3 players to cover the areas needed for operating a crew/ship because they can do things in their "field" well.

This design was not the way for all the older games. Star Frontiers had a skill system and not a class system to get results. Many games just seem to use one or the other...either class...or skill. So from what you are getting at it appears you may want to mimic the AD&D type "proficiency" system (which became more prominent in the Wilderness/Dungeoneer Survival Guides). You basically get a number of slots (which are kinda like points) and you spend them on proficiencies. What this simply does is if you have a situation that calls for an attribute check (EXAMPLE: to swim across the dangerous river you need to make a STRENGTH check by rolling 1d20 equal or under your STRENGTH ability), you have a modifier to the die roll if you had a "swimming proficiency". Maybe you can subtract 1 from the roll. Either way you have a slight advantage over the person without the swimming proficiency.

Although I do not use the "proficiency system", it is easy to introduce and use in a game for game masters that need/want that level of detail. They are sometimes misunderstood where one would say "geez...I don't have a cooking proficiency...does this mean I can't cook anything?" It was just a system developed to let gamers have a more defined character, which slowly evolved to move away from the plain wizard or fighter.

[Stephen]

I like the idea of having an array of more complex skills, because it enables players to customize their characters.

[daddystabz]

Precisely. I also think the 4 skills listed for the game are not sufficient to explain simple things like why is Kirk such an amazing commander? Is it only because he has a high Int characteristic? His Technical score is not going to be responsible more than likely because command officers get crappy Technical scores to begin with.

I like the idea of having an array of more complex skills, because it enables players to customize their characters.

[daddystabz]

Can any of you all help me create a skill system for S&S 2e based on Trek? Maybe we can use the exact same skills from Far Trek and somehow grok them into the game.

What do you all think and what are your suggestions?

[Stephen]

Sounds like fun.

For starters, I recommend that skills be purchased using some kind of point system. The points would be based on level and Intelligence (reflecting the fact that characters with a higher intelligence are generally able to master more skills). For example, at each level the character gains 4 + Int Modifier (from column 1a) skill points to spend. The character cannot spend more than one point per level increase on the same skill.

In terms of skills, I would suggest a wide array. The advantage of this approach is that it gives players many more combinations, enabling them to really customize their characters. The disadvantage, as Wizardawn raises above, is that it makes the rules more complex. However there are precedents for complex skill systems in old-school RPGs, for example Top Secret. Here are some ideas to kick around:

Athletics skills (acrobatics, animal riding, climb, fall, jump, swim, throw, zero-g training)
Weapons skills (demolitions, heavy weapons, melee weapons-modern, melee weapons-primitive, ranged weapons-modern, ranged weapons-primitive)
Unarmed attack skills (brawl, various martial arts)
Survival skills (hunt, resist pain, track)
Manipulation skills (pick mechanical locks, pickpocket, sleight of hand)
Stealth skills (hide, sneak, shadow)
Vehicle operation skills (land, air, space)
Computer use skills (operation, programming, hacking)
Medical skills (first aid, forensics, medical knowledge, psychology, surgery, treatment)
Science skills (astronomy, biology/xenology, chemistry, genetics, physics, xenology)
Starship Operation skills (communications/sensors, defenses, engineering, navigation, weapons)
Technical skills (cryptography, forgery, invent, juryrig, repair, technical knowledge, xenotechnology)
Starship Command skills (command, diplomacy, first encounter, inspire)
Interaction skills (bargain, bluff, bribe, charm, intimidate, taunt)

Each skill would have an associated ability. One skill point would buy one rank in a skill. Characters with at least one rank are considered 'trained,' and resolve skill checks by rolling a d20 plus their base ability modifier (column 1a) plus their skill ranks, against a GM-determined DC that is based on the difficulty of the attempted task. Skills could be used untrained (although some skills cannot be used untrained, such as computer programming), where the bonus would be 1/2 the associated ability modifier (column 1a).

[Stephen]

Starship Operation skills (communications/sensors, defenses, engineering, navigation, weapons)

These skills stem from my own observations from an earlier gaming session that starship combat is very much a single-player activity (see http://www.goblinoidgames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2015). Allowing other players to man ship systems enables them to contribute to the battle.

[Stephen]

Vehicle operation skills (land, air, space)

Vehicle Operation - Space would be the skill used to pilot shuttlecraft, e.g. navigate through difficult stellar phenomena, avoid enemy fire, takeoff/land in difficult conditions, etc.

[daddystabz]

If I played the game as-is with only the 4 default skills how do you think the game handles these questions I have in regard to player competence? How does the default game account for Kirk as a genius commander? How does it account for Khan's amazing knowledge of earth history? How does it account for one character being an amazing pilot? And how does it allow for diversity in skill between players of the same branch and suboccupation?

Kirk would not seem to be your average command officer in terms of his abilities....he is FAR above average, yet this game seems to assume he would be the same nearly as any other command officer who was of the same level with similar attributes.

Am I wrong in this assumption?

[Wizardawn]

If I played the game as-is with only the 4 default skills how do you think the game handles these questions I have in regard to player competence? How does the default game account for Kirk as a genius commander? How does it account for Khan's amazing knowledge of earth history? How does it account for one character being an amazing pilot? And how does it allow for diversity in skill between players of the same branch and suboccupation?

Kirk would not seem to be your average command officer in terms of his abilities....he is FAR above average, yet this game seems to assume he would be the same nearly as any other command officer who was of the same level with similar attributes.

Am I wrong in this assumption?

You are not "wrong", but simply have your own tastes on how you want your games to function. You need to have something spelled out that states that Kirk is a better commander because he chose 1st, 4th, & 6th skills in a list of "command skills". You also want these skills to affect gameplay somehow (automatic successes, dice modifiers, etc). Equate the evolution to the computer role-playing game industry...you had a game called Bard's Tale where you could make a fighter. That's it...a fighter. The only customization of that fighter is the name and stats that randomly generated. Then fast forward to Skyrim. You no longer have just a fighter...but a fighter who mastered two-handed weapons, and is super protected by heavy armor because he worked both of those skills and chose all of the perks that go with them. Their fighter is more unique than other peoples' fighters in Skyrim...because they had choices.

Although you have some people who need to have these attributes defined on a character sheet...some others play these games with another mind-set. So...you have your starship captain for S&S that is level 6 and is probably like my level 6 starship captain. The only thing making them unique is a name, sex, race, and what they wear...right? Wrong! My captain has not only survived up to level 6...but also stopped an alien invasion from a nearby galaxy. He saved the planet Terbos IV from an asteroid that was on a collision course. He foiled an evil scientist's plan to unleash a virus on a small colony world. They basically had their own life. Due to good dice rolls, making good in-game choices, succeeding all the saving throws, and having a good crew (I guess meaning other players at the table that played well)...that is what makes that starship captain great in the story being told. What makes Sulu such a great pilot? He makes good story decisions and great dice rolls to back it up. Basically the story that progresses will "maybe" make your character great in the eyes of the universe your campaign takes place.