The OSR Ecosystem

[Goblinoid Games]

(cross-posted on my blog)

The recent re-release of WotC Classic D&D PDFs, and in particular the release, for the first time ever, of the Moldvay/Cook/Marsh basic game in PDF form has prompted some people to ask what the future of the OSR and Labyrinth Lord will be.

The unsatisfying reality is that at this stage I think any prediction of what this will do to the OSR is only speculation. But I think the future of the OSR would be equally nebulous even if WotC had not released its classic PDFs again. I've always held the view that the predominant boost in popularity of the OSR was due not to 4th edition D&D so much as the death of Gary Gygax. Much of the blogging scene that resulted from it reflected interest in revisiting or rediscovering the roots of D&D. So many blogger topics were related to dissecting the old style game and style of play, an exercise (though fun) that is most certainly not new, and neither were the majority of the insights. I never found much of the revisionist history going on (still going on) of much use. What was new and of tremendous value was the large amount of creative output that could be shared with a wider audience.

So the time we enter into now is further removed from the sorrow many of us felt at Gary's passing. People have revisited that youth and those old rules, and pretty much said what they needed to say. That exercise is over. The irony is that the OSR started as a means of preserving the old rules, but now in what has been dubbed by some as the "second wave," that objective has been altered to claim that the natural evolution of this process of rediscovery should lead to new "innovations." I would argue that a lot of what we're seeing is now that the exercise of self exploration through earlier D&D is over for a lot of people, those who declare it is time to move on are the same people who had moved on from earlier D&D in the past. So it isn't the original form of the game that needs to move on, it's that the interests of some have moved on.

The idea of innovations is what the OSR was directly opposed to at the beginning. Don't get me wrong, it is great for people to take D&D and make it "theirs," even publish it, but frankly any claims that this is the way it is supposed to be only benefit those who feel they need to justify the existence of another house-ruled D&D. Or put words into the mouths of dead men and claim that a new game is constructed the way it was meant to be. Or take something as extemporaneous as an "Appendix N" and sell it as a manifesto rather than a simple inspirational reading list. Those of us who helped build the foundation of what would be the (at least commercial) aspect of the OSR where doing it as a reaction against the edition treadmill, against viewing classic games as outdated. Little did we know that in so doing, a new treadmill from many sources rather than only one would spring from the seeds we planted. That people would take our work and do the exact thing we were opposing, claim it is past its expiration date, and here is a new improved version with fresh innovations. But one person's innovations look like a solution begging a problem to someone else, and what you find works for your home table is great but that doesn't mean other people should see it as the natural new path.

In retrospect, how could it have gone any other way? When OSRIC and Labyrinth Lord were written, they were the canaries in the coal mine. People watched and waited, mostly thinking we were crazy to want to publish obsolete games, but also waiting to see if we were sued into oblivion. That didn't happen, which emboldened others to follow in those footsteps. Except once the various ecological niches of the OSR were filled, the only way to spread was laterally. If you've decided to publish old-school products you have a choice to make. Do you create supplements for a game someone else publishes, supporting their brand, or do you release your own game? The answer lies in the moves LotFP, Autarch, and others have made in recent years.

If it sounds like I'm being negative about this, it is only from the perspective that rhetoric and marketing seems to want to stomp on others to justify the existence of the newer games. From an open gaming perspective, the various spin-off house rule systems are all natural, certainly inevitable, and overall healthy developments.

If you have the vision that the original games should go on unchanged like a termite caught in amber (e.g. many posters at the KnK Alehouse), then what has happened recently is a bad thing. But one of the often overlooked aspects of the OSR is that the movement is grounded not just in old-school games, but open source moral values. It isn't enough anymore to just have old WotC PDFs available, or one-off print runs of AD&D. The OSR means, as Mario of Wizardawn once cleverly put it, not just "Old School Revival," or "Old School Renaissance," but equally as important, "Open Source Rules."

I can envision an OSR Ecosystem where there are a variety of retro-games, some more traditional like OSRIC and Labyrinth Lord, and others derived from those works that add their authors' personal touches, like ACKS and ASSoH, where we view these in their creative open-source spirit rather than getting caught up in the competitive market-speak that wants to justify through supposed innovation. Even though there is a commercial element, almost no one is making an actual living at this work. At best people are supplementing a family income from this business. That's why I think people should keep things in perspective and ratchet down the competitiveness to properly reflect the low stakes. I don't see ego as a valid stake.

The future of the OSR is as much in the open source movement as it is in the old-school movement. Something some people may have forgotten (or never knew) is that when the OSR as we know it started in 2006, WotC had a lot of the 1e and basic catalogs available as PDFs. It was only later in 2008 that they were removed from sale. My point is that the presence of legal PDFs didn't prevent the creation or perceived need for OSRIC, and likewise once the excitement dies down I doubt it will influence the success or failure of the current commercial side of the OSR. Having books available as PDFs is great. However, many people would still prefer print copies. Even if reprints or a POD option happens for B/X and other rule sets, the open source element will still be there. Labyrinth Lord is still the best brand proxy for third party publishers who use the OGL, and the open content from Labyrinth Lord and other retro games will continue to give people the tools they need to create their own gaming materials.

The OSR Ecosphere is changing, not dying. WotC has added their material back to the ecosphere where it was in the beginning, and I think that will only strengthen the cause for old-school gaming. People have already been converted to the idea that the older versions of the game are just as valid as the recent ones, and WotC's recent business decisions only reinforce that. They obviously see value in these products now, even if they didn't seven years ago. When Labyrinth Lord was released I suspect they didn't think much if anything about the Moldvay/Cook/Marsh set of rules, but this time around it was among their first releases. They "get it" now even if they didn't before, and if Labyrinth Lord had some small part in that I consider it a success.

For addition views see Blackrazor's recent posts here and here.

[Wizardawn]

I have been thinking about this as well...ever since the reprints more so than the PDF re-releases. I have 2 copies of the reprints and this weekend I have to go pick up my 2 copies of UA reprints...why...I don't even know. I already have the books. Oh well. I still call OSRIC my main book and all my AD&D stuff supplemental material for that. I think people sometimes forget what these clones (just to use the one word here) were meant to do and how they could be used. If it were not for these games...I wouldn't have publicly available generators and tools for games like this...unless I decided to make my own Mazes & Monsters game I guess. Thanks to the smaller companies...I am able to get stuff done in this regard ("smaller" not meant to be derogatory). If I were to try and call WotC (or send them a letter) asking if I can make an AD&D random generator with monsters...their legalese default response is just "no". Say "no" to everything. It would cost too much and take too much time to analyze the request just to see if maybe we could get screwed if we said "yes". You (Dan) were approachable so I could have LL tools. Stuart Marshall was more than willing to let me get OSRIC tools going. Matt Finch didn't mind me doing the Swords & Wizardry stuff. Just the other day I sent Rick Loomis a message asking if I can make Tunnels & Trolls tools (yeah...you read that right...this AD&D player wants to mess with T&T) and he got back to me in maybe an hour with a "yes". Ken St. Andre (T&T creator) even sent me an email saying how he liked my site and I didn't even get started with the T&T stuff at that point. All of this...thanks to the "smaller" guys.

The thing that I believe would make this WotC move a "good thing" for everyone is given below in examples...

- Do you like playing OSRIC or maybe LL/AEC? Go get a reprint of the Dungeon Masters Guide for AD&D. It is a good read and a good supplement to those 2 games (for any D&D type game for that matter)...it will work just fine.
- Do you like playing LL but want some more published modules? Get yourself some D&D Basic modules now and use them with LL...it will work just fine.
- Do you want some gods for your LL or OSRIC game? Get yourself a PDF of Dieties and Demigods for AD&D...it will work just fine.
- Do you miss not having stats for Beholders or Mind Flayers in your clone game? Go get a reprint of the Monster Manual for AD&D...it will work just fine.
- Do you think you want a more in depth wilderness (hex-crawl) sourcebook for LL or OSRIC? Get an AD&D Wilderness Survival Guide...it will work just fine.
- Are you bored with the monsters in the LL book? Go get a PDF of the Fiend Folio for AD&D...it will work just fine.*

I see many posts about "make more for <insert clone game system here> please!" Thanks to WotC...go have a field day. Not only is this stuff a super great supplement to your clone of choice...but sometimes you get some insight on what the authors were thinking about back then and how they did things...and why. You get to use all of this stuff with that people (who still had their original books) would talk about on forums. You can run an LL game in the Temple of Elemental Evil. You can have an OSRIC adventure in Castle Caldwell and Beyond. If you need published modules... http://www.dndclassics.com will keep you busy for a long, long time.

* To also note, the Fiend Folio has a Treasure Table similar to LL's page 106 table...so you will know what AD&D monsters get what treasure.

[Blood axe]

Maybe Im out of the loop. WOTC is only offering those old books & modules as PDFs right? Not actual reprints of the old "red book" and adventures? Ive only seen PDF.

[Wizardawn]

Maybe Im out of the loop. WOTC is only offering those old books & modules as PDFs right? Not actual reprints of the old "red book" and adventures? Ive only seen PDF.

Correct.

[redwullf]

Maybe Im out of the loop. WOTC is only offering those old books & modules as PDFs right? Not actual reprints of the old "red book" and adventures? Ive only seen PDF.

Correct.

Correct, but...

Don't rule that out for the future. We have shiny new copies of AD&D PHB, DMG, and MM, with UA just around the corner. 2e books are coming, and this is not just a rumor anymore. Maybe there's a RC in the future?

Maybe...

WotC saw enough value to reprint the AD&D 1e and 2e core books (and the 3.5e books, for that matter). The PDFs for the Basic and Expert books more or less topped the list (depending on when you were checking), so there is already evidence that there might be value (revenue) in reprinting those as well.

[jdcllns]

I wish there was a way to "Like" or "+1" this thread.

[Skathros]

+1...sortof...

Of late, there has been something about the direction the OSR (gods, I hate that term!) took that really bothers me. It's taken me a while to put my finger on it. But I think I was able to pin-point it simply by drawing a line seperating when old-school gaming got me excited and when it turned ickey.

Before LL and OSRIC came into being (way before), a wide-eyed skathros, lamenting the lack of additional stuff for his prefered edition of D&D (that is: B/X) discovered DF and OD&DITIES. Here were people supporting my game, simply because they held a belief that these games still had value. They werent giving me a house-ruled version of my game, they were supporting my game. Any additional rules were supplemental in much the same way as supplemental rules were presented in Dragon, Dungeon, WD, or the stratigic review. It was a great time to be an old-school fan.We all pitched in in the hopes of supporting the game we loved. When C&C came out (and basic fantasy), I simply took it in the same veine as when PFRP or RM came out. I could see where the roots of the old game where showing, but it (they) was a different game.

OSRIC and LL were the first step in the right direction for this revival of old-school support. Both these sets of rules hewed as close as possible to the originals and allowed folks to support the games in a legal manner (which was a concern, justified or not, with DF productions). This isnt to say folks wernt streaching the rules in new and different was, but these additions were supplemental and the core rules were always the rules I loved. And just like in the DF days, everyone was contributing to support our game. What WotC wouldnt do, the fans stepped up to the plate and did!

And then...things got wierd. It wasnt about supporting my favorite version of D&D anymore, it became about peddling peoples' house-ruled versions of my favorite version of D&D. Now I love peoples house-rules, or ideas for doing things in a different manner, but these things should always be supplemental, for me to pop in my game if i'm so inclined. I'm not interested in Maze Master: Bob's house-ruled B/X with extra rules Bob thought were neat from 3E. Slowly, instead of a bunch of fans supporting a set of rules, it turned into individuals putting out thier fixes for a game I thought was great. So by this point, we went from people supporting a game we thought was perfect and deserved support, to people changing the rules to make them what they thoughtc was perfect.

ooops...late for work. Will post more later.

[Thoth Amon]

I, for one, am glad the OSR happened. I never bought into the "release my own rules" or bought up all of what has been produced. I have purchased a few modules, a handful of the OSR games (OSRIC, LL, S&W Core, S&W White Box, and DCC). Of these, I've since sold OSRIC, DCC, and given away S&W Core. Even as a kid, when we all played "AD&D", it was never really AD&D - it was more-or-less B/X.

Over the years I have been downsizing my gaming collection. I am now down to 4 wooden crates of stuff I either use or has sentimental value (autographed by the authors mostly). Two weeks ago I decided to just keep what I use accessible and put the rest of my collection in the attic. I now have one crate available handily. What is in it you ask? The LL and LL-AEC rules, the 2e Karameikos boxed set, the D&D/AD&D modules I still own (basically all the pre-1984 ones), Mutant Future and the one adventure printed for it, and lastly, Slipstream and Space 1889 (the Savage Worlds version). If I did have more room in the box, I would put the WFRP rulebook and Enemy Within modules since I have run a WFRP game in the past few years. Not only has the freed up my closet, it actually makes me feel better as I hate clutter.

[francisca]

I said this on Dan's blog and over at Blackrazor: I can't think of a reason why anyone currently working to create stuff for OSRIC/LL/S&W/whatever should or would stop. If you have a creative itch, you have a means to scratch it, so go ahead.

I just don't understand how WotC putting old stuff back up for sale would stop anyone from doing what they are doing. i mean, the ACKS guys wanted to release a system which had the domains, and different classes, and the combat stunts or whatever they call that stuff, so they did it. Do they now think it was wasted effort, just because you can buy B/X in PDF? I'm betting most of the purchasers of ACKS already had B/X and/or AD&D, or at least had it in the past, or effectively had B/X with LL Core and AD&D with OSRIC. Would Talanian not put out AS&SoH now that AD&D is back? Should Joe stop soliciting manuscripts for the Advanced Adventures line because we can run out and buy the GDQ PDF bundle, and soon, the A series in hardback?

I think the answer to all of those should be no. There is still demand for new material for use with not only the clones, but the original games. And now it's easier for those who haven't gotten around to picking up copies of the original games to do so.

For reference, I'm a guy who plays AD&D and B/X, and the whole OSR thing has simply been a bunch of stones for me to overturn to see if there is something to add to my game. But I just am not seeing the need to re-asses the role/direction of the OSR.

[Vile]

I am always bemused when onlookers raise the question of what the need is for yet another OSR product. As far as I can tell, the only need that must be filled is that of the creators. This isn't some sort of industry which stands or falls by its profit margin, I would hazard that every single OSR product owes its existence primarily to the desire of it's maker to create something. I don't believe the OSR is at all demand-driven, so the existence or not of the original product in a legal format makes a jot of difference.

I've bought quite a lot of the B/X PDFs, and I don't see myself giving up writing ...