New players... some dont seem to grasp the old school vibe

[HeavyMetalWarrior]

Hi guys, i wanted to start this thread aimed mostly at LL DMs'

Theres this stuff that happens to me almost all the time when running a new game of Labyrinth Lord/Old School D&D.
The new players all seem to be so used and "jaded" by computer RPGS that they just cant grasp the idea or feeling behind an old school pen and paper rpg. I keep being asked stupid questions like: does my character respawn if it dies? why dont i level up at fast? in WOW i would be already a level 30! why cant i have crazy super hero powers with my level 1 dwarf? and so on...
To make things worst, the big bunch of them dont hace any creativity while gaming, Nor in the development of the character and role playing aspect nor in the gaming part of it. Its like they all want a computed generated character with no personality at all and no story. Or for example i once had the characters battle a big pack of goblins in a staircase, and there was a huge boulder next to it that almost had a sign that said: PUSH ME. NONE of the players even thought about it. After almost all of them died i asked them why they didnt think of it. The answer: you cant do that in the MMORPGs i play so i never thought of it.
In conclusion, i really dislike playing with new "gamers" cause i feel that they take all the fun away from old school roleplaying. The only people i really enjoy playing with are a bunch of stoners and metalheads who arent the typical modern gamers at all xD

I really think that MMORPGS and such have kind of ruined the RPG concept. There is no creativity at all, its like they stole all the magic and artistic value it had and just turned it into a brainless mechanical thing. Thats why im beggining to understand all those old guards that hate 4th edition, its like they just made a tabletop wow clone. So guys, does this happen to you? how do you deal with new gamers like those ones?

[Wizardawn]

Some of these gamers think the game is to come up with the "perfect" character build.

[Vargr1105]

So guys, does this happen to you? how do you deal with new gamers like those ones?

No, it does not happen to me because I don't play in an IRL group, sadly.

As for how to deal with new gamers like those...I wouldn't, because I would not be playing with them in the first place. I would direct them to 4E, good riddance, more power to them and all that.

If I may ask, where and how do you recruit new players? That might be part of the problem.

[3llense'g]

Heh, I played with people like that when I was a kid. Hell, I WAS one of those players. Funny thing is, I grew out of it.

Maybe if you take it slow and demonstrate certain play styles and methods to them, they'll learn how to do it. For example you could give them an NPC companion to tell them this stuff or do it for them. Then later, when he's no around they'll be like "what would he do in this situation".

[Mach Front]

That's unfortunate.
I've had better experiences playing with newbs and 'non-gamers' than I've ever had with 'actual' gamers of any stripe.

In my experience, once newb players know that they can try pretty much anything...man, do they ever!

On the old GG forums, I once compared players to tornadoes. (wish I had the quote... bighara 'sigged' it for awhile) I think it's even more accurate for newbs than for experienced gamers in fact.

Hard to grant advise here however. For one thing I don't know how you introduced the game to them. I mean... did you let them know ahead of time that they were in the clear to be as creative and crazy as possible? Did you let them know that you'd not only adjudicate, but also be 'on the side of fun' as it were and let some things go for the sake of having a great time...so hey guys, go wild...keep it in the spirit of the game, but game with your tongue out.

I realize that can often not sink it. I still would get a lot of hesitant "Could/Can I ____?". After just a session or three, (along with gung-ho support from me) that always fades. In crazy directions (thank goodness, actually).
"I'm going to do whatever I can to impersonate that jerk and ruin his life."
"But you're a halfling."
"..and?"
"....aaannd he's a human."
".....the worst that can happen is that everyone will think I'm mad...I still win." *jokingly crazed look*

What I mean is, more often than not, when people feel the reins come off...when they know it, they can go a bit nuts. In a good way....usually.

[Mach Front]

It may also behoove you and the group to come right out and say: "Look, it you want to plow through orcs at the speed of a 'click', then go to the computer games." (Heck it's what I do, too.)
"You have to understand that this is not going to give the same game experience. This is something similar, but different. Here, you can be much more creative. Embrace that. Hug it. Touch it inappropriately. Dress like it and dye your hair the same color as it and take its place in its life."




....what?!?


"But, by all means, if you want the computer experience with 100% fidelity, you'll have to go to the computer game."

I mean to say you'll have to draw a line in the sand while, at the same time, making it inclusive. Encourage it. Give them positive reinforcement.
I'm already rambling. If I reiterate again I'll just be rambling more. I think I've ham-fistedly made my point...

[Goblinoid Games]

Those are some interesting experiences! I'm of the opinion that you have to impress upon players coming to old-school D&D for the first time that it is an entirely different game than what they are used to. You take enjoyment out f different things. Gaining power through leveling up is on an entirely different (non-superhero) scale, and real threat of death is part of the whole point of the game. IMHO if that isn't there then you're not playing D&D.

[Vargr1105]

That's unfortunate.
I've had better experiences playing with newbs and 'non-gamers' than I've ever had with 'actual' gamers of any stripe.

If we think about it, it is hardly surprising. A "game" is by definition something competitive that pits two or more persons against each other or a solitaire player against a randomizer (whether it be cards, dice or a computer), with clear objectives, victory conditions and a set beginning and end. This is hardly a good definition for a Role-Playing "Game" but we use the term anyways. Most "gamers" on the planet are not tabletop RPG players and are used to a completely different ludic tradition that usually lacks most of what makes a tabletop RPG be a tabletop RPG. It isn't jaw-dropping then, that total newcomers who have already acquired gaming attitudes from a steady diet of uber-powered, competitive MMORPGs that require little to no socializing come to a Labyrinth Lord gaming table with some (from our perspective) kooky ideas and attitudes.

The solution to this is three-fold: either take the extra time, effort and patience to "re-educate" these people in hopes they alter their attitudes to conform to expectations or seek persons who are already into the Classical Gaming mindset.

Or...recruit players from the "non-gamer" pool (from libraries, sci-fi/fantasy groups, writing guilds, etc) introduce them to the game and hope for the best, like Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson did in the early 70's. They weren't all wargaming buffs back then.

Personally, going the extra mile to attempt to change the attitudes of people already set in gaming ways which are nearly the antithesis of Classical Gaming seems like loosing proposition. But I'm often accused of being a cynic, so keep that grain of salt handy.

[paulg]

You might have them read Matt's Quick Primer for Old School Gaming. Reading that was a real "ah-ha!" moment for me.

[Scalydemon]

I'm very fortunate to live in an area with a vibrant old school gaming community, where I don't have to waste my time trying to change these types of peoples minds or attitudes