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Vile wrote:I am always bemused when onlookers raise the question of what the need is for yet another OSR product. As far as I can tell, the only need that must be filled is that of the creators. This isn't some sort of industry which stands or falls by its profit margin, I would hazard that every single OSR product owes its existence primarily to the desire of it's maker to create something. I don't believe the OSR is at all demand-driven, so the existence or not of the original product in a legal format makes a jot of difference.

Absolutely. Well said.

After reading some others' thoughts on it and musing on it myself, I do think the re-releases will be an overall boon to the OSR. One thing I realized about myself is, Labyrinth Lord is my B/X so it doesn't do much for me directly, but I'm thrilled for other gamers out there that are interested in them. As for OSR products be they rules, supplements, monster books, settings or what-have-you and be they for fun, for profit or both, all I can say is more please. I want to play in other gamers' heads. I know what my gaming is like already and can fall back on it at any time, so the more that is out there the easier it is for me to indulge that particular vice. If the OSR was gluttony, right now I'd be fat, fed and happily asking for seconds.

Vile wrote:I am always bemused when onlookers raise the question of what the need is for yet another OSR product. As far as I can tell, the only need that must be filled is that of the creators. This isn't some sort of industry which stands or falls by its profit margin, I would hazard that every single OSR product owes its existence primarily to the desire of it's maker to create something. I don't believe the OSR is at all demand-driven, so the existence or not of the original product in a legal format makes a jot of difference.

I've bought quite a lot of the B/X PDFs, and I don't see myself giving up writing ...

Well, i've posted something along the lines of "just how many megadungeons do we need, anyway", but that was more of a wondering aloud why someone would announce another megadungeon in an already crowded field, sort of thing, rather than a "OMG, no one should ever create another megadungeon EVAR" reaction.

The Lizard of Oz wrote:One thing I realized about myself is, Labyrinth Lord is my B/X

LL does 2 things to B/X that I always houseruled anyway: spells for clerics at first level, and Leather as AC 8. So yeah, if an elder gawd stepped in and grabbed all of the B/X printed and digital material ever created and chucked it into the void, I'd get along quite well with LL.

Thanks for the comments everyone. The primary goal of Labyrinth Lord was to get an old edition back into print, in open source format, so that it would be available to everyone forever. Although there are other related goals I have as a business, that core goal is always there. So even though I think it is great to now have all the old PDFs so everyone can enjoy the out of print products, no matter what ever happens to support for those older books LL will always be there as an open source alternative. There are so many products, both for free and commercial, for LL these days that I can't even keep up with them all. That, to me, is one of the wonderful things about open source gaming. There have been some great materials produced, and I think everyone should be proud of what they have accomplished. None of that is going away.

I've been considering an OGL rules set clone for the purpose of having something I can do with entirely as I wish. But the fact that making something too close to the original can result in legal issues and you have to know the OGL (which might be voided in itself by being too close to the originals) gives me hesitation.

What I find interesting is how Holmes intro booklet was house-ruled in various ways....

The B/X rules were house-ruled in various ways (some annoying to me, but trivial...)

Mentzer BECMI carried house-ruling even further.

AD&D was one huge house-rule document using ideas from all over. But at least it was not called "D&D" per se. The books make it clear it is "AD&D".

Each version of D&D was house-ruled, with quirkyness added by editors, yet they remained D&D, with users house-ruling things as they wished anyway, so who cares about editors. Eventually that sort of D&D died and was uber-house ruled into something else...
And to me that is the OSR - providing legally distributable games we can play D&D with. Yes, WOTC is selling PDFs. Maybe they will even do POD one day.

But we cannot legaly post a FREE pdf or print a copy and say, "Read this. We'll play it." With the OSR we can. That is a big difference.

I personally don't need other people's games (I have the originals). But that does not mean other people don't.

The "OSR" will die when the owner of D&D says, "Here. Do anything you want.", not when all they do is resale it.

bighara wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi5hOQcY9ZU&list

Thanks for the comments!

Know what I loved? B/X.
Know what else I love? Hardbacks. Shiny, new hardbacks.
Know what I have? About seven or eight pairs of the B/X books.
Know what else I have? Three LL hardbacks (and another on the horizon). .....oh, and a super-secret completely non-sanctioned I-can't-tell-you-more-about-it-if-you-don't-already-know Lulu hardback of B/X...

I loved Dragon back in the day , but honestly, FO! and Knockspell and the like have, to me, outshined the former's slight usefulness.
I almost never made full use of modules of any type the whole of my rpg-playing life. I still grab some ideas and inspiration from some.
I sure would like to have some of that stuff I didn't get then.... hey!, WotC have released them again! 'K.

NOW I'm back to where I was...only with legal pdfs.
To me, nothing of real note has changed.

Even if they reprint everything they will only print them for a limited time.

LL/AEC will always be free and floating around.

This whole thread made me think...not always a good thing, my wife would say