i laid out an A5 LL+AEC. am i allowed to share?

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i laid out an A5 LL+AEC. am i allowed to share?

Postby stuffis » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:58 pm

hi all --

i decided to teach myself indesign, and as a learning project set out to lay out Dark Dungeons as an A5-size book. this proved difficult, as DD was written and laid out in MS publisher, and converting/placing the content would've required more hours of table-munging and text-cleaning and blah blah blah than i felt like spending on the project.

so i downloaded the LL/AEC MSWord files and set to work laying those out instead.

THANK YOU dan proctor for sharing these. smart and generous. btw, i'm surprised at how pleased i am with the writing in LL -- it's pretty well pared down but has some flavour!

the result of a few day's labour is a 290-page paperback volume, nicely proportioned, 25% thinner than james kramer's (fantastic, cheap) OSRIC A5 edition -- indeed, copying james's font choice (Myriad Pro SemiCondensed) since i didn't want to think hard about the font. some typos and laziness remain but i don't particularly care; it's a reference document, nothing more.

my printed copy's on its way from lulu. here's what the interior looks like. (right-click the image and open in a separate window to see the full 2-page spread; i dunno how to shrink embedded images here.)

Image

i know that other folks are interested in this kind of edition, but it's not mine to sell. my question is, am i allowed to distribute the pdf? for that matter, what do i have to change in order to sell it at cost on lulu?

anyhow, i'm mainly here to gloat.

that said -- it's not hard to make your own, and i encourage you to try! it took me a lot of hours but it needn't, and you could get 80% of the way to a decent layout with Publisher or even (ugh) Word itself. Office docs will never look beautiful but that's not the point, really.

i still wish someone super-dedicated would do a straight-up A5 conversion of the Cyclopedia itself, and do the same for the 1e DMG. OSRIC is a great resource but it has no flavour at all. but the thought of going from the old 1e pdfs to indesign gives me hives.

best,
wa.
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Re: i laid out an A5 LL+AEC. am i allowed to share?

Postby elf23 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:40 pm

Wow awesome work!

I'm interested -- how did you combine the two books (LL + AEC)? Simply one after the other, or did you actually combine the text (i.e. merging all the monsters, magic items, etc into one section)?
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Re: i laid out an A5 LL+AEC. am i allowed to share?

Postby petespahn » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:05 pm

Hey guys, I'm not sure if Labyrinth Lord and the AEC are considered Open Content under the OGL. Given that Dan was recently talking about creating a product like this, you might want to email him directly. Good luck!

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Re: i laid out an A5 LL+AEC. am i allowed to share?

Postby Dyson Logos » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:08 am

LL and the AEC are indeed OGL licensed, the trick is that certain terms that are included in the raw document files are not allowed to be used (mainly Labyrinth Lord itself)
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Re: i laid out an A5 LL+AEC. am i allowed to share?

Postby petespahn » Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:17 am

I was under the impression that something about the level progression tables were also under copyright but I could be misremembering or getting my licenses mixed up.
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Re: i laid out an A5 LL+AEC. am i allowed to share?

Postby Thoth Amon » Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:07 pm

Nice. Would like to see the entire product.
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Re: i laid out an A5 LL+AEC. am i allowed to share?

Postby Goblinoid Games » Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:54 pm

petespahn wrote:I was under the impression that something about the level progression tables were also under copyright but I could be misremembering or getting my licenses mixed up.


Nope, that is OSRIC.

Except for the term "Labyrinth Lord," all text is open, so you can certainly distribute this if you just remove that term wherever it appears. You also can't call the book "Labyrinth Lord." Of course you can't use any art from the books, etc. either.

So now that this will be out there, is there any demand for me to do this as an "official" release?
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Re: i laid out an A5 LL+AEC. am i allowed to share?

Postby Eldrad » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:51 pm

It would be something I would buy. Possibly a hardcover option as well?
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Re: i laid out an A5 LL+AEC. am i allowed to share?

Postby stuffis » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:49 pm

Goblinoid Games wrote:Except for the term "Labyrinth Lord," all text is open, so you can certainly distribute this if you just remove that term wherever it appears. You also can't call the book "Labyrinth Lord." Of course you can't use any art from the books, etc. either.


thanks -- this was my understanding of the license. i don't want to sell the thing, honestly; certainly not to make money off dan (et al.)'s hard work. i just like the idea of a small reference edition, with LL's clarity of presentation and that nice form factor. i'm willing to share it, if folks feel it's useful.

So now that this will be out there, is there any demand for me to do this as an "official" release?


honestly, if there are folks looking to buy an A5 edition, i and my files can happily disappear, and i'd encourage you to go for it if you have time. i'd offer to send you my indesign files, but i made small changes to some of the text (for the sake of layout cleanliness/concision) without keeping records of them, and comparing my A5 layout to the source files would probably be a huge pain.

btw, i'd talk to james at usherwood for advice on how to assemble a compact edition -- his OSRIC A5, as i mentioned, is an impressive feat of text-squeezery. :)

best,
wa.
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Re: i laid out an A5 LL+AEC. am i allowed to share?

Postby stuffis » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:52 pm

elf23 wrote:Wow awesome work!

I'm interested -- how did you combine the two books (LL + AEC)? Simply one after the other, or did you actually combine the text (i.e. merging all the monsters, magic items, etc into one section)?


thanks! i lazily appended my LL and AEC documents, because i am lazy. :)

inserting AEC material a chapter at a time would be trivially easy, but pasting it into (e.g.) the spells chapter would take a lot of work that my wrists don't relish, and might introduce unnecessary complication to B/X referencing. easier from a tech-doc standpoint to keep them separate, as i see it.
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