Combat sequence

[Bishop]

Hi folks!

First of all, I just want to describe myself briefly. I’m quite a modern gamer that like old-school stuff. I started playing D&D 3, then I have played AD&D2 and then turn back to 3.5 and 4th edition. Since a certain time, I tried some old-school/retroclone games (AD&D1, OSRIC, Castles and Crusades and now, Labyrinth Lord.

So, I just have some questions about some rules that are (very) old-school!!

First, I read that, in combat, there is some sequence (Telling what we are doing, initiative, ect.) But is it that the first player does his movement, his attack, and then others do their movement, attack, or is it that the first player does his movement, the second does his movement? If so, this means that even if a mage is second in initiative and a goblin is first, the mage will cast his spell before goblin can strike in melee?

Secondly, I read in a post (on this site) that while you can move 1/3 your movement rate and still attack (20’ for a Dwarf), when you are engaged in a combat, you can only move using the Fighting retreat (1/2 ; so 10’ for a Dwarf) and Full retreat (full movement so I guess 60’, like when running ; in doing so you have, however, penalties). Am I right with that? If yes, is a fighting retreat allows to strike? If no, this means that, when engaged in a combat, you can only move or attack but not both?

Thirdly, if, for example, an elf (120’) is fighting a Dwarf (60’). If the elf won initiative, and had planned to move back (fighting retreat), and that dwarf planned to strike the elf. When the elf move, is the dwarf can attack now, or if he has to follow the elf and attack after is movement? If he has to move, I supposed that since he’s no more engaged with elf (who retreated), he can move 20’ and attack in the same round?

I just want to add that English isn’t my first language, so if it’s not clear, just tell so I can try to rewrite it!!!

Thank

[johnnybleu]

Hi there, and welcome to old-school gaming goodness!

First, about the combat sequence, it depends on whether you're using group initiative or individual initiative. If you're using group initiative (and initiative is rolled every round, by the way), then whatever side wins the initiative goes first, where;

1- Everyone who wants to move do their movement action, then
2- Everyone who wants to use ranged attacks does so, then
3- Everyone who casts a spell (and didn't move or used a ranged attack) does so, then
4- Everyone who attacks in melee (and didn't cast a spell, or used a ranged attack) can now attack.

After the winning side does that, the losing side does the same thing. So, if the PCs win initiative they will all take their turn before the monsters. But if the monsters win, then THEY all get to take their turn before the players.

Your understanding of movement is correct. You can move 1/3 your movement and attack, and if you're engaged in melee at the start of your turn, then the only movement you can do is a Fighting retreat or a Full retreat. You can still make an attack when using a Fighting retreat, if you can get close enough to another target.

Finally, in your example of the elf and dwarf, if the elf wins initiative and moves back with a Fighting retreat, then the dwarf will have to wait until his turn to attack, and he'll have to move (at his normal rate) since the elf is no longer within striking distance. However, if he elf would have chosen a Full retreat instead, then the dwarf would get to attack as soon as the elf moves (with a +2)-- think of it as an attack of opportunity.

I hope that helps!

[Bishop]

Yes this is very clear ; it's help a lot!

Thanks for help (I can't wait to try it now!!!)

[Eldrad]

Let me add that the party initiative is the best way to handle huge combats! I have had a party of 6 with over 12 npcs fighting 20 skeletons and it never slowed down as other editons do. It's a blast to have huge battles!

[Bishop]

Yes, I think that I'll try with party initiative. At first glance, group initiative is always a little bit strange for me. However, it seems to work very well!!

[petespahn]

I use group initiative for groups of npc minions and individual initiative for PC's and important npcs. My players like the variety better. We also use weapon speed house rules tho.

[Black Wyvern]

I use group initiative for groups of npc minions and individual initiative for PC's and important npcs. My players like the variety better. We also use weapon speed house rules tho.

Ditto for me. Weapon speed was the one thing I missed from my ad&d days with AED.

[Bishop]

Ditto for me. Weapon speed was the one thing I missed from my ad&d days with AED.

So true !!!

We also use weapon speed house rules tho.

Do you steel use d6 for initiative ?

[petespahn]

No we use d10. We also house ruled some generic casting times for mages to allow for spell disruption. Nothing as complex as 2e tho.

[johnnybleu]

Not that I want to highjack the thread, but I'm curious about these "weapon speed" house rules.
I've been mulling over such an idea already, and I'd like to know what others may already be doing. So I can then use it, perhaps.