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Hi all, I thought I'd post here to see if people want to help brainstorm about a second edition of S&S. Note that I'm backed up with other stuff so real development on this won't begin for a long time yet. Originally what I envisioned was a 2e that was fully compatible with Labyrinth Lord, Mutant Future, etc. As i think more about it though I'm wondering if a different path should be chosen. With D&D variants coming out all time, such as Stars Without Number and X-Plorers, etc. this kind of D&D in space approach is already becoming saturated and probably will continue that way.

So one thing I've been thinking about is rather than move to completely gut most of the system a revised edition instead might just clarify a few things, revise a few things to try to make them easier to play/understand, and flesh out "gaps" in the rules--basically a revision and expansion of the game, not a total overhaul. It would still retain its unique elements but beefed up a bit.

Thoughts?

Goblinoid Games wrote:So one thing I've been thinking about is rather than move to completely gut most of the system a revised edition instead might just clarify a few things, revise a few things to try to make them easier to play/understand, and flesh out "gaps" in the rules--basically a revision and expansion of the game, not a total overhaul. It would still retain its unique elements but beefed up a bit.

Thoughts?

I much prefer this approach to forcing S&S into a D&Dish set of rules simply for the sake of compatibility. S&S stands well enough on its own, but it does need a little cleaning up (maybe a lot of cleaning up). Truth be told, i always thought it odd that GG would buy and old/OoP game only to change its system.

Skathros wrote:I much prefer this approach to forcing S&S into a D&Dish set of rules simply for the sake of compatibility...Truth be told, i always thought it odd that GG would buy an old/OoP game only to change its system.

That's a good point. Inter-compatibility amongst the systems/genres would lend the games a GURPS-like connectivity. That could be a GG selling point - that characters from one game could conceivably appear and play in another sandbox. However, TSR had D&D, Gangbusters, Gamma World, Boot Hill, Marvel Super Heores, etc., and they weren't remotely compatible with each other.

It's a tough question to be honest. My gut reaction is to keep it it's own system and "just" clean it up and make it spiffier.

But marketing-wise, making it compatible with your flagship product is important.

But then again, MF isn't really 100% LL compatible either (with the massive hit dice for starting characters and such), so making the game different but compatible, as you did with MF, sounds like the way to go. Fix it up, tune it up, and then include a section on using it with LL.

I'm also in two minds and as such, although it means a lot more work, I would like to see both options come to pass. The original game could do with a make-over, but I too think that a LL-compatible version would only strengthen the GG brand name. I strongly suspect within the current scene there are more LL (D&D) fans than S&S fans. The latter would no doubt prefer a revised version that was faithful to the original, and doing that would be a nice tribute to the those fans and the original author. But the usefulness of the product would be vastly increased by making it compatible with LL. Is doing both options an option Dan?

Maybe do a chapter in the S&S book ala "Mazes and Mutants" in the MF book? This chapter could give conversion notes to the LL system while the rest of the book is "classic" S&S. Just a thought.

(Rephrasing/revising from my post on OldSchoolTrek...)

The KEY things I think need be done rules-wise:
K1: alter the various detection chances from X on d6 to a skill roll. (Contact Skill seems the best). Wherever practical, make it someone making a stat roll.
K2: rationalize the space encounter tables to be useful on already mapped sectors
K3: extend the Q&A mode to also be used for sensors, not just computers.
K4: cost per warp hex varies by size of ship

Things I'd like to see...
L1: additional subclasses to match the team types in S&S's companion game, Star Explorer.
L2: Pirates, similar to those in Star Explorer
L3: a bonus for making by a lot, which decreases by level. (I use 11-Level as the minimum success to get extra benefit)
L4: at least one more enemy race (not counting the pirates)
L5: heavy freighters (FH... 2 pods)
L6: more equipment

Things that would be nice, but might be going too far
N1: revise the ship classes. DD renames to Cutter (C), CS to DD, BC to CS, add a 3 pod BC, and make the DN 4 pods
N2: More hazard types
N3: more psionics options
N4: Another PC race or two
N5: more starbase R&R halls. Give at least 8, one per attribute, each with a "Helpful" and a "Harmful" task example.
N6: Commo rules. (My house rules on it work for me, but...)

If the second edition is purely LL/MF/OD&D compatible, it's of no interest to me.

I may be in the minority, but I'd really prefer S&S to be directly compatible with MF and LL. In particular I had hoped to mix MF and SS at some point in my campaign.
Thanks!

No worries, keep the opinions coming. It will be a while before I turn back to this project so I'll be thinking about what everyone has to say.

Brutorz Bill wrote:I may be in the minority, but I'd really prefer S&S to be directly compatible with MF and LL. In particular I had hoped to mix MF and SS at some point in my campaign.

Me, too!