Full auto and grenades in Cryptworld...

[ReaperWolf]

Hey, first time poster. Loving Cryptworld, glad to see Pacesetter is back!

Two questions occurred while reading Cryptworld today:

1) Page 37, 2nd column, 2nd paragraph. RAW, automatic rifles eat up 10 shots doing a burst gaining +30 modifier to the attack but the Target's Declared Action or Situation This Round" modifiers are ignored. Am I reading this correctly? Taking cover has no benefit against burst fire? Or being in a car? Makes burst fire attacks pretty the end-all of the game.

2) Page 38, 2nd column, 1st paragraph. Grenades have a 15% catastrophic damage rating. Am I reading this correctly: 15% catastrophic damage to everybody within 15 ft radius? Meaning a 15% chance anybody within 3 squares in all directions of being hit? That's very low. Misprint? If possible hold my hand and walk me through an example.

>>ReaperWolf

[sniderman]

Heading to work, so I gotta make this quick...

1) Page 37, 2nd column, 2nd paragraph. RAW, automatic rifles eat up 10 shots doing a burst gaining +30 modifier to the attack but the Target's Declared Action or Situation This Round" modifiers are ignored. Am I reading this correctly? Taking cover has no benefit against burst fire? Or being in a car? Makes burst fire attacks pretty the end-all of the game.

That seems to be the size of it. If someone fires a burst, they gets a +30 modifier, and it appears the targets ignore their declared action mods. But a burst isn't necessarily a game ender. 1. If the firer misses their one roll, they miss everybody. 2. Regardless of how it pans out, they spent 10 bullets, causing their ammo to deplete quick-fast. 3. The defenders are still rolling the 1d10 for column effect, so a bunch of "1s" means that burst caused a lot of grazes and nicks, but no real damage anyway.

But I agree that a +30 modifier seems "off". No time to really look things up now, but I recall that consecutive shots from a gun accrues increasing negative mods. (See table page 35.) I wonder if the burst-shot mod should have been -30 instead. You get a willy-nilly spread of 10 bullets fired at a bunch of folks, they get NO chance to defend, but the attacker is at a huge disadvantage due to just pointing and squeezing the trigger with no real aiming. In fact, that's how I'd judge at the table if I were running the game. But this is just my opinion on the way the rule is currently written... (But, for the record, the +30 modifier for auto weapons appears in the original from-the-80s Pacesetter games, so that's the rule as written 30+ years ago.)

EDIT TO ADD: Gave it some thought. Here's how I'd table-rule an automatic weapons burst to make it a bit more "fair":
1. The shooter takes a -30% modifier penalty due to the haphazard method of firing. Everything else remains the same. (Defenders don't get any modifiers; roll 1d10 for defense column for each defender.)
2. The shooter gets the +30 modifier bonus. Defenders don't get any modifiers (as written) BUT the defense column is 1d10/2 for each defender instead. So the shooter has a better chance to hitting everyone, but the "spread-out" damage will be halved. (Columns 1-5 for damage rather than 1-10.)

2) Page 38, 2nd column, 1st paragraph. Grenades have a 15% catastrophic damage rating. Am I reading this correctly: 15% catastrophic damage to everybody within 15 ft radius? Meaning a 15% chance anybody within 3 squares in all directions of being hit? That's very low. Misprint? If possible hold my hand and walk me through an example.

Outta time, gotta go. Someone else want to field this?

[seneschal]

Wait, wait, wait. Daphne and Velma are able to get their manicured hands on military grade weapons?

[sniderman]

Well, my PCs have never gotten their hands on anything like this in decades of Pacesetter games (maybe Timemaster...). But I can see a Big Bad shooting at the PCs, so it seems fair to give them a fair shake at not dyin'.

[Goblinoid Games]

The grenade damage is a misprint, an OCR error introduced from Time master and I thought I caught it but guess not. It should be 75%.

[ReaperWolf]

I don't have a problem with the +30 mod, it's one way to hit multiple targets, i.e. accuracy bonus but no extra hits on the same target and each target gets a different defense roll 1d10. You could always rule that a single target in the area of effect is hit multiple times. A +30 bonus takes the usual L damage to MK damage assuming an average DEX 53, modest +15 Specialist +30 for full auto the attack roll is 98, assuming an average roll of 50, that's an attack margin of 48 vs. an average defense of 5 (on a 1d10) that means MK damage instead of just M.

Another way is per one of the suggestions with a -10 per short round burst and -30 for full auto but add an extra 1d10 or 3d10 rolled damage (before any multiplication) to simulate being struck by multiple rounds.

For now I'll keep it simple and RAW (more or less). I still think cover should provide a defensive bonus even to full auto attacks.

>>ReaperWolf

[ReaperWolf]

The grenade damage is a misprint, an OCR error introduced from Time master and I thought I caught it but guess not. It should be 75%.

Thanks for the expedient reply.

Regarding the grenade 75% catastrophic damage, I'm still uncertain how this is resolved.

I roll a general throwing/DEX roll, assume I hit and 3 human targets (cultists) are in the blast radius. How do I proceed from here? I roll an attack and the characters roll 1d10 for defense I'm guessing. Assume I roll average 50, that leaves 25 margin, so assuming the cultists roll a 5 on their defense, that means M damage or 2d10x2 STA and 3 Wounds damage. The average person has around 13 Wounds and the most damage you can sustain is 5 Wounds so how does anybody die from a grenade blast?

Also, the actual distance from the blast is irrelevant. Maybe give a flat defense based upon distance from the epicenter of the blast? Maybe cap the defense roll based upon distance, the closer you are the lower your defense roll.

Maybe increase damage based upon proximity, I suggest +1d10 STA/+1 W for being 15 ft. away, +2d10 STA/+2 W 10 ft., and +3d10/+3 W 5 ft. away.

Granted this assumes NPCs have the same number of Wounds as PCs which I seriously doubt. PCs should always be a step above the other humans, generally I have NPCs give up the fight long before their health runs out, usually at the 50% for most lackeys/goons/thugs and 25% for grizzled vets. Only the most loyal dogsbody will die in service to their leader/master/employer.

>>ReaperWolf

[Goblinoid Games]

I think that when it comes to certain damage one has to decide whether to give bonuses to damage. Proximity is a good idea, also maybe for increments if the margin is above 100, like say every 10 such as 100-10, 111-120, etc is + 1 wound (or something like that). But by the book, yes no single attack will deal more than 5 wound boxes. However, there is much more stamina damage and the character may be as good as dead if he hits zero, depending on the situation.

[ReaperWolf]

I think that when it comes to certain damage one has to decide whether to give bonuses to damage. Proximity is a good idea, also maybe for increments if the margin is above 100, like say every 10 such as 100-10, 111-120, etc is + 1 wound (or something like that). But by the book, yes no single attack will deal more than 5 wound boxes. However, there is much more stamina damage and the character may be as good as dead if he hits zero, depending on the situation.

This is interesting and worth considering. Modern grenades have a casualty radius of 15 meters/~50 feet and a killing radius of 5 meters/~15 ft. One option for grittier games would be to rule if you're in the killing radius you're dead unless you roll LUC. If you make the roll you're reduced to 1 Wound and 1 STA but you're KOd. If you're in the casualty radius, you take damage based upon proximity to the blast. You roll defense as usual but reduce defense by 1 for every two squares/10 ft. you are from the epicenter.

Grenades and explosive rules, including rules for dynamite, nitro, landmines, claymores, and IEDs would make a dandy article in your in-house periodical or even Gygax Magazine.

>>ReaperWolf