Wizards' World 2?

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Wizards' World 2?

Postby Spectral Hand » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:43 pm

As I mentioned earlier, I plan on starting a new Wizards' World home game later in the fall, and I'm planning a pretty major rules overhaul as part of the preparations for that game. I don't really want to call this a second edition of Wizards' World for two reasons: (1) it might be very idiosyncratic to my group and not be the best direction to take the game for general use, and (2) I have no interest on stepping on Dan's toes if he wants to come out with a new edition at some point.

Nevertheless, Dan, feel free to tell me if you'd rather I not post some of the stuff that appears here and I'll stop.

That's my preamble. And everything starts with philosophy, and here is mine. First, these rules will not be for the math-phobic. I like relatively complex math models as a starting point because they let me model things the way I want them, but I want game sessions to run fast and easy so at some point (e.g., via simplification, rounding off, and generous use of Excel to turn formulas into combat values) those complex math models have to turn into something easy to use. My gaming group has some people like me (and who have the programming skills to help me in the simplification process) and some others who value simplicity a lot. I want to make everyone happy. :D

Second, as anyone who has thought carefully about the Wizard rules in WW should know, I'm not averse to a little bookkeeping. Again, I don't want a lot of page shuffling to slow down play, but I like forcing players to think a bit about their characters out-of-game. Not even all my players are fully onboard with this, though, so I need at least some options that are close to "plug and play".

Campaign rules will start appearing in the next post. I don't know how quick I will be about putting up new stuff, but I'll try to keep things moving as much as I can. Please let me know if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions. Thanks!
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Re: Wizards' World 2?

Postby Spectral Hand » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:49 pm

These are the basic rules for character creation. I'm going to have to change some nuts and bolts (e.g., modifiers for primary attributes, experience tables) later, but I'm going to start with the overview of what I want to do.

Character classes will all be custom, based on negotiation between GM and player. Here are the basic elements of the classes:

(1) A story. This is where you tell me what your character class is about, how it works, how it fits into the world (e.g., are there guilds, is the profession well-respected and/or well-known), and anything else that you think might be relevant. This can be minimal if desired.
(2) A percentage distribution between weapon skills, magic, and general skills. This will determine the percentage of Development Points (DP) that go to each of the three development categories. For example, a character might define a “Bard” class as 30% weapon skills, 30% magic, 40% general skills.
(3) If the percentage for magic is nonzero, three additional elements are needed:
a. The style of casting. There are three options here. The Wizard learns spells the most efficiently but is the most restricted in her ability to cast spells (follow
standard Wizard rules). The Mentalist is similar to the wizard, but casts all spells purely from her mind. This requires no verbal casting component, but all spells
cost 20% more Spell Learning Points (SLP) to learn. The Talent Mage acquires magical abilities over time. Talent Mages are required to learn all of their spells at -
20% (that’s “minus 20”) chance of failure or less, but once they know a spell it doesn’t cost them energy to cast and thus they do not have Spell Points (SP).
b. The Primary Attribute that drives casting. Barring amazing persuasive abilities on the part of the player, this must be either Intelligence (INT) or Willpower (WIL).
Normally, Wizards use INT while Mentalists and Talent Mages use WIL, but I’m willing to be flexible on that if players can make a good case that it should be
different for their character.
c. What spells you are going to give up. By default, PCs can potentially learn any spell. By choosing a restricted spell list, a PC can gain more SLP. See the Spell
Specialization table to see how your SLP increase for more restrictive spell lists. You can choose restrictions based on criteria other than branches of magic. If you
do so, you’ll have to negotiate with the GM to determine your SLP multiplier.

Your character class will be your character class forever. If you want to modify it due to campaign events, you’ll have to negotiate with the GM. If you want to modify it because it isn’t actually what you want, you’ll also have to negotiate with the GM but depending on circumstances it might make more sense to start a new character.

Of course I have a few things built into the system to give you some flexibility, though. Here they are:
(1) Everybody is going to get some advancement in general skills for free as characters develop. This won’t be enough if you want to be a skill monkey, but my goal is for it to be enough to reflect the general competence an adventurer acquires based on “field experience”.
(2) You can multi-class for free, but only in three “basic” classes:
a. Rogue: 100% of your DP go to advancing general skills.
b. Warrior: 100% of your DP go to advancing weapon skills.
c. Spellcaster: 100% of your DP go to advancing spellcasting. If your base character class includes a spellcasting component, you must follow the same rules in the
Spellcaster class as you have in your base class.

That's where I'm at for now. Things like the Black Knight and White Knight from the original WW book would be examples of "custom classes" for my coming campaign. If I were to think about this as a new WW edition, basically I'd lay out the "basic" classes referenced in the last section above then provide a few examples of custom classes. I'm trying to approximate the flexibility of systems like GURPS while preserving the "character uniqueness" I like about defined character classes. Hopefully it will work. :D
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Re: Wizards' World 2?

Postby Goblinoid Games » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:08 pm

Hi David, I don't mind at all if you want to post your rules revisions for your home game. We would only need to consider how to proceed if you or someone else (or even me for that matter) wanted to actually publish them. But we can cross that bridge if we get there.
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Re: Wizards' World 2?

Postby Spectral Hand » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:01 am

Thanks, Dan. We should be on safe ground, because publishing a new WW edition isn't in my plans. I'll continue to post a very detailed set of house rules here as they develop. :)
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Re: Wizards' World 2?

Postby Spectral Hand » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:49 am

A few notes are in order before I go into the updated Primary Attributes. You'll notice at least two fairly significant changes. First, there aren't any skill modifiers attached to attributes. That's because starting skill values will be calculated directly from attributes and thus attribute modifiers will already be implicit in skill values. Second, you might notice that the attribute bonuses are linear now, whereas they sloped up pretty steeply at high values in the original WW. In my opinion, the design of the original WW strongly encouraged players to choose extreme attributes (e.g., INT 20, STR 10 rather than INT 15, STR 15). I think that is somewhat baked into the facts that Wizards should be smart and Warriors should be strong, but I want to tone it down a little bit by keeping the value of +1 to a primary attribute relatively constant. There is also a small tweak that players always get +1 primary attribute point at each level up. I think this is a nice bonus for leveling up and isn't too unbalancing. It also relates back to an "issue" we had with the original WW. There is a monster called the Nemesis that can give PCs +/- 1 primary attribute point each level, essentially as a result of a fight with one's own mirror image. Our PCs pretty much always chose to fight their Nemesis, because a PC should know his own strengths and weaknesses better than the GM and thus odds should be in the PC's favor. Some players didn't like this because they felt unlucky or because their characters were basic enough that Nemesis fights were essentially a coin flip. In the end, we abandoned the Nemesis and moved over to a fixed +1 attribute point per level.

Primary Attributes

Primary attributes are the same as from the original Wizards’ World (Strength [STR], Intelligence [INT], Willpower [WIL], Endurance [END], Dexterity [DEX], and Agility [AGI]. Players get a total of 85 points to split between those six primary attributes in any way they choose, although no primary attribute can be lower than the character’s racial minimum or higher than the racial maximum. Appearance [APP] is also a primary attribute, but has minimal effect on gameplay. Players can assign their APP to any value that is valid for their selected race.

Every time the character gains a level, the player can add one point to primary attribute of his/her choice. These increases can exceed the normal racial maximum. A character’s APP can change at any time (within the starting range for the character's race) any time the player can justify it by the character's behavior (i.e. my character has been exercising to lose his pot belly) with no cost to the character. If a player wants to raise the character’s APP above the normal racial maximum, this requires spending the primary attribute increase from leveling up; in this case, the character gains 2 APP points rather than a single point for other primary attributes.

Extra notes:
(1) Humanoid NPCs that do not have a character class typically have primary attribute values around 10, with some variation depending on race.
(2) Although the primary attribute tables stop at 30, primary attributes above 30 are legal. For such attributes, the tables should be extrapolated to determine associated bonuses.

The following section describes the modifiers associated with each attribute.

STRENGTH:
Combat modifiers: To Hit = STR-10; Damage = (STR-10)*10%
Example: A character with STR 16 would have +6 to hit and +60% damage.
These modifiers apply fully to melee weapons. Three fourths of the bonus applies to thrown weapons and half the bonus applies to bows. Crossbows do not apply STR modifiers.

Damage should be pre-calculated and converted to dice. For example, if a 24 strength creature were wielding a longsword (base damage = 1d8), the creature's damage would be 1d8 + (240%)*1d8. 240% of 1d8 is 2.4d8, so the creature would do a total of 3.4d8 of damage. This would be rolled by rolling 3d8 normally, then adding in another 1d8 multiplied by 0.4 (roughly 1d3).

Attempts to force a locked door are determined based on a STR saving roll (3d10 vs. STR), with a modifier determined by the GM. We won’t be playing with encumbrance rules, so increased carrying capacity is one benefit a high STR will not provide. Carrying Capacity is not included here.

INTELLIGENCE
As always in Wizards’ World, INT affects spell learning, some saving rolls, and possibly other things at the GM’s discretion. INT should not be used by smart players as an excuse for playing stupidly. While it is true that intelligent characters would be better at solving problems, the game wouldn't be much fun if we didn't have to depend on our own abilities to make game decisions.

For INT-based spellcasters, the highest level spell a character can learn his the character’s INT-10 (thus, characters with INT 9 or lower can’t learn any spells), with a maximum of 10. This rule does not restrict spell use from scrolls or other magical items. For every point of INT above 10, INT-based spellcasters get an additional 10% SLP.

WILLPOWER
For WIL-based spellcasters, the highest level spell a character can learn his the character’s WIL-10 (thus, characters with WIL 9 or lower can’t learn any spells), with a maximum of 10. This rule does not restrict spell use from scrolls or other magical items. For every point of WIL above 10, WIL-based spellcasters get an additional 10% SLP.

WIL is often used for saving rolls against mental attacks (magical and otherwise). To roll such a saving roll, add 3 10-sided dice and compare the total to your WIL attribute. If your WIL is greater than or equal to the dice total, you succeed on the saving roll; otherwise, you fail. A natural roll of 30 always fails, and a natural roll of 3 always succeeds, given that a saving roll is allowed against the attack. If a saving roll is specified with an adjustment (i.e., WIL - 4), then compare the dice total to your adjusted attribute. Thus, if you had 22 WIL and were making a WIL - 4 save, you would need to roll 18 or less to succeed.

ENDURANCE
In addition to being a component of some important secondary attributes, END typically determines a creature's resistance to disease, poison, and similar physically draining effects

DEXTERITY
DEX is an important factor in calculating several skills (see Skill table coming later). A creature’s base chance to hit with any weapon is 2*DEX stated as a percentage. If the DEX of a creature is reduced for some reason (e.g. it is wearing armor), the adjusted DEX should be used for determining how DEX affects the character's abilities.

AGILITY
AGI contributes to some skills and secondary attributes, but its primary function is to avoid being hit in combat. A character’s Defense, which is a direct subtraction from any opponent’s to hit chance, is calculated as 3*(AGI-10). For example, creatures attacking a target with 15 AGI would have -15% on their to hit rolls; creatures attacking a target with 8 AGI would have +6% on their to hit rolls. Incapacitated creatures are treated as having zero AGI.

APPEARANCE
This is a measure of how attractive a creature appears to humans. Normally, this attribute is not used for creatures that are vastly different from humans in physical structure.
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Re: Wizards' World 2?

Postby Skathros » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:10 pm

Absolutely great, so far. Can we have more? Please?
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Re: Wizards' World 2?

Postby Spectral Hand » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:34 pm

You betcha, Skathros! And thanks for asking. :D

I've been having some work problems the last few weeks, and I wasn't sure anyone was actually following this thread. Things are clearing up a bit now, though, and I hope to post a new installment by the end of the week.
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Re: Wizards' World 2?

Postby Spectral Hand » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:06 pm

I'm going to be a bit careful with this next installment to stay away from any copyright issues with respect to Wizards' World. Please refer back to the core rules as a reference.

This installment is about secondary attributes and races. The changes might seem minor, but they reflect some game changes that are likely to have a substantial impact on gameplay: (1) the transition from experience points to development points as a measure of character advancement (see earlier notes on this thread for an explanation of DP); and (2) the conversion from a turn-based system to a continuous game clock. I feel that the first of these changes is a straight up improvement in the design, but the second is likely to be more controversial. I'm fairly confident that I can GM the continuous game clock without letting the game feel slow and clunky (I really want fast gameplay in this campaign), but I'm not 100% sure about that and this system might not be for everyone anyway.

OK, game changes:

LIFE POINTS (LP)
Life Points indicate how much damage a creature can withstand. A creature's starting life point total is equal to its END multiplied by 2, and creatures gain additional life points for each level (including level zero) that they attain in character professions. If a creature is damaged, it can remain conscious until it reaches 1.5 * (10 - WIL) LP. This value does not change with experience. Thus, for example, if Wally the Wizard had a 4 END and a 26 WIL, he would start have a starting total of 8 LP and would be able to fight until he is down to -24 LP.

A creature below -10 LP is technically dead, but some creatures (i.e., those with a high WIL attribute) may be able to circumvent this undesirable situation. If a creature is able to remain conscious below -10 LP, it can continue fighting for a while, and can conceivably cure itself before it actually dies. Essentially, such creatures are surviving by force of will alone. After each second that a creature is conscious below -10 LP, it adds a number of "death points" equal to half the number of points below -10 LP its LP total is (round up). When the death point count exceeds the creature's WIL, the creature dies immediately. A creature's death count is reset to zero whenever its LP are above zero at the end of a second.

Let's bring back our Wally the Wizard example. As you recall, he can remain conscious until he reaches -24 LP. Let's say that he is brutally struck by an ogre and is unfortunate enough to reach -14 LP. One second after the time that he became "dead," Wally would move his death count from zero to two (half the difference between -10 LP for and Wally’s current -14 LP), and he would add two more to his death count every second thereafter until his LP rise above -10. Assuming nothing happens to change Wally’s situation, twelve seconds after the ogre's attack, Wally's death count would be at 12, which equals (but does not exceed) his WIL, so he would still be conscious. At this point, there are several possible outcomes for Wally: (1) if he is healed above 0 LP during the next second, his death count resets entirely; (2) if he is healed to a value from 0 to -10 LP during the next second, his death count stops advancing but doesn’t reset (and further damage could kill him relatively quickly); or (3) if he is not healed to -10 LP or better during the next second, Wally’s death count will exceed his WIL and he will die.

NOTE: This raises base LP considerably, and also brings WIL into the equation as a means of fighting at negative LP.

Alertness (AL): See WW. A few example detection events:
Event Type of AL check
Pickpocket attempt against target Percentile roll vs. 2*AL
Pickpocket attempt against other creature nearby Percentile roll vs. AL
Invisible creature in normal sight range Percentile roll vs. (AL + 2*level)

Stealth (ST) and Movement Value (MV) are basically unchanged from WW.
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Re: Wizards' World 2?

Postby Spectral Hand » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:18 pm

And on to races... Minimal changes here, and I'm only going to post changes from the WW baseline.

One thing you'll see repeatedly is bonus Development Points (DP) for various races. In most cases, those correspond to bonuses in experience points or spell learning points to the same races in core WW.

Dwarves
They start out with 10,000 DP as a Warrior, in addition to the 10,000 DP normally allocated to starting characters.

They get 10% bonus DP as a Warrior.

Metamorphic Dwarves
They are able to cause their skin to appear to move and change hue. This strange ability has a hypnotic effect, and all enemies engaged in melee with the metamorphic dwarf (particularly those who are attacking her) must make a saving roll vs. WIL or stand transfixed (Stunned). This effect lasts for 10 seconds, and Recurs every 10 seconds until the creature succeeds on the WIL save, the metamorphic dwarf chooses to terminate the effect, or the metamorphic dwarf is forced to terminate the effect (e.g., by being somehow incapacitated). To produce this effect, the metamorphic dwarf must Concentrate for (8 * .93^CL) seconds, with a minimum time of one second. This ability does not count as a spell in terms of requiring a recovery period, but Magic Resistance does apply against the effect.

NOTE: Yeah, we'll be doing exponential functions to calculate delays for abilities, spellcasting, and weapon attacks. My goal is to use the magic of Excel to turn brutally unmanageable equations into simple gameplay. Good luck to me!

Elves
They start out with 10,000 DP. These DP can be divided among (1) any spellcasting profession; and/or (2) missile weapon skill within the Warrior profession (thrown or fired). Thus, for example, an elf might start out with 6000 Wizard DP and 4000 Warrior DP with the Warrior DP pent on heavy crossbow. These points are in addition to the 10000 DP that starting adventurers normally get.

They gain 10% bonus experience, divided between any type of spellcasting experience and missile weapons. Thus, for example, an elf might choose to gain 2% additional Wizard experience and 8% additional missile weapon experience. These numbers can never be changed once they are set for a given character.

Dark Elves
They start out with 10,000 DP in any spellcasting profession. These DP are in addition to the 10000 DP that starting adventurers normally get.

10% bonus to any experience points applied to spellcasting.

STR: 3-18 END: 3-16

NOTE: A bit of a nerf to Dark Elves. They own Elves in core WW.

Gnomes
They start out with 10000 DP applied to general skills (i.e., as a Thief). These DP are in addition to the 10000 DP starting adventurers normally get.

They get a 10% bonus to experience points applied to acquisition of general skills.

STR: 3-19

NOTE: Super low STR races got a boost. I don't want any stats so cripplingly low that they simply eliminate certain character class options.

Halflings
They start out with 10000 DP as a Thief. These points are in addition to the 10000 DP that starting adventurers normally get.

They get a 10% bonus to experience points applied to acquisition of general skills.

STR: 3-17

Demon Halflings are basically unchanged.

Human
+10% to all earned experience;

Start with 5000 DP with the focus (general skills, spellcasting, weapon skills) of the player’s choice.

That's pretty much that. The next installment will get to character classes, most probably the Warrior. Very complicated mechanics decisions are required, though, so it might be a while coming. Let me know if you have any thoughts about all this.
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