goblinoidgames.com

I know it sounds like a contradiction in terms, a basic version of LL, or in other words a basic version of Basic, but would anyone find any usefulness or value in a stripped down version of the LL rulebook that:

- only went up to level 9
- thus spell lists would only go up to level 5
- stripped down monster and equipment lists
- magic items lists limited to 10 items each
- much of the wilderness information edited out, leaving a focus on dungeons
- an all over edit to reduce page count and keep things simple
- retaining the sample dungeon

The idea of course being the production of an introductory game, which could be released as a free pdf and possibly a low cost PoD product. Of course even better would be if someone like John Adams of Brave Halfling Publishing took such a product and turned it into a box set, as he successfully did with Swords & Wizardry: White Box. Then it could come with an introductory module, a set of dice, etc. Such a product could potentially bring in a lot of new people to the LL fold and of course would be less intimidating to newbies than a big, fat rulebook.

Anyway, what do people think? Good idea or an unnecessary waste of time?

I don't see the point in it but I'm sure some others would fine use in it. LL is already free to download.

Thoth Amon wrote:I don't see the point in it...

The point is exactly the same as why TSR produced various introductory versions of the game over the years and recently WotC did the same with their 4e D&D Essentials box set, and why there are so many "Quick Start" versions of games on places like RPGNow - to give a condensed introductory version of a game in order to tempt new people to try it and hopefully grow to love the full game. In other words a marketing ploy to grow the brand. Not everyone wants to read through a 130+ page pdf, free or otherwise, nor wants to commit themselves to trying a full version of a game, whereas quick start games seem to be popular with those wanting to tryout a new game often in a one night session.

I agree. Question though, why up to level 9? Maybe streamline it to level 3 or 4? If they like it by 3rd level, they'll gladly download the full pdf or buy LL. It could be printed up in pamphlet form.

Also, throw in a dozen one page dungeons...simply stuff with plenty of adventure!

jcftao wrote:...why up to level 9? Maybe streamline it to level 3 or 4?

I was thinking of the Holmes example, which of course only went up to level 3. While a good introduction to the game, as a stand alone product it is fairly useless. Part of the attraction of rpg's is going up levels and having the characters increase in powers and abilities as they do so. Limiting such a product to level 3 would not allow that to happen. But of course the question of utility would depend in what format such a product was produced. If it was limited to say level 5, then all characters bar the magic-user would be able to increase their saving throws, and spell levels would be limited to 3rd level, which would help reduce the finished size of the document even further.

jcftao wrote:It could be printed up in pamphlet form.

If it was, then I reckon level 3 would be fine. If however such a project did get picked up by someone like BHP and was published as a box set, then it would need to avoid the Holmes pitfall in order to be a useful stand alone product, thus higher levels would be needed.

This product would be aimed at new players, not existing players.

jcftao wrote:I agree. Question though, why up to level 9? Maybe streamline it to level 3 or 4? If they like it by 3rd level, they'll gladly download the full pdf or buy LL. It could be printed up in pamphlet form.

Also, throw in a dozen one page dungeons...simply stuff with plenty of adventure!

Personally I would go to level 5 because of the iconic fireball spell (and the incredibly useful dispel magic).

Strip the rules down to a 32 page digest format, or so. Maybe 24 page rule book, small monster book, and definitely a book of "one page dungeons" redone as 2 page dungeons (ie: formatted for digest size).

DEFINITELY the booklet of dungeons.

and definitely a book of "one page dungeons" redone as 2 page dungeons (ie: formatted for digest size).

DEFINITELY the booklet of dungeons.

Yep, and maybe a roster of pre-gen characters to try on for size.

I have mixed feelings about this. For example, the way S&W was sort of splintered itself into various odd versions that many people can't keep track of, some of which are mainly the fault of changing publishers/goals/etc.

I would be very open to such a project that basically took the OEC book and added the core rules and translated some monsters etc. to create an 0e clone that is more accurate than the current S&W white box, that is if people wanted it. I have so many things on the table at the moment that i'm not sure I have time myself but I'd be happy to work with another publisher on it.

On the other hand, if you had something else in mind, Dave, we could work that out possibly.

Goblinoid Games wrote:I have mixed feelings about this. For example, the way S&W was sort of splintered itself into various odd versions that many people can't keep track of, some of which are mainly the fault of changing publishers/goals/etc.

If I myself did this, it would be pure LL, no changes or additions made to the actual text, just a slimmed down version.

Goblinoid Games wrote:I would be very open to such a project that basically took the OEC book and added the core rules and translated some monsters etc. to create an 0e clone that is more accurate than the current S&W white box, that is if people wanted it.

Haha! That's something I've thought of having a go at ever since you released the OEC.

Goblinoid Games wrote:On the other hand, if you had something else in mind, Dave, we could work that out possibly.

I'll email you to try and sell you the idea.

Hmm. Dwarf tops out at L12, Elf at L10 and Halfling at L8. L9 is the level that just about every class has their retirement option available. That way, everyone has a chance to run a character through a full career, establishing themselves as a 'power of the land'. Sounds good to me.