Prime Directive

[Red-24]

With the success of Labyrinth Lord and the funding drive to bring about the 2nd edition rules, has any consideration been given to partnering with Amarillo Design Bureau to make a Starships & Spacemen version of Prime Directive?

It seems to me that Amarillo likes to partner with other companies to bring new rules engines to Prime Directive. Plus Starships and Spacemen is such a natural fit. All that would be needed is the setting specific background and to create the races, equipment and starships from that universe.

Frankly, I would love to see it and would fund that project as well.

My 2 cents.

[RAD Colin]

Would it be really worth it? They've already got their d20 version, and are working on a Traveller version. How many versions do you really need? One of the great things about S&S is that it's enough like Trek and PD to be recognisable and accessible, but it isn't burdened by so much canon and history.

[Goblinoid Games]

Amarillo Design Bureau is a great company, and they certainly have shown a lot of good will toward partnering with other companies. I had thought about approaching ADB about this before I bought the Starships & Spacemen property in 2009. However, I decided against it for a couple of reasons. After doing some digging it looked like they cannot sublicense their rights, and they would own the book. In the end I had to ask myself if it would be a good choice to pour my resources into developing intellectual property that I would never have control of (I think I would essentially have had to do a project like that as a freelancer), so I decided against even asking. Another problem is that their setting has been so extensively (expansively) developed that it makes it feel inaccessible, which IMHO is the real problem with why the RPG has never really taken off. It seems like they keep porting it to other systems hoping that gains it a larger audience, but again IMHO the problem is not with the system but the setting.

So for me, for both business and person reasons, buying S&S and developing that seemed like more fun and a better business decision down the road.

[Red-24]

That's too bad. I understand that they would own the rights to their intellectual property, and that you couldn't sub-license their license. It's amazing enough to me that they have a license in perpetuity, and that they can work with other companies to produce products. I didn't realize that they would "own the book". I assumed it would be kinda joint custody.

I was thinking along the lines of both having a primary S&S II rules system with it's future supplements, modules, etc., and also a Prime Directive version for those who would love to either integrate components of PD into their S&S game, or who like a rules light system that has a rich back story and fully developed setting.

I, for one, had no interest in playing Star Fleet Battles, or Federation Commander due to the rules complexity. But when A Call to Arms: Star Fleet came out, it totally drew me in. It's rules light, very playable, and had great starship miniatures behind it. I'm now heavily invested in it, and have become a Mongoose Infantry member and am promoting the game as much as possible.

I'm a huge Traveller fan, and will likely buy Traveller PD (if and when it ever comes out). But, I'm not sure that Traveller rules are the right system for Star Trek gaming. I once owned GURPS and never played it. Just too much to take on. I'm not interested in the original Prime Directive (based on reviews). So I stumbled upon S&S and figured this would be perfect for roleplaying in the Star Fleet universe.

I know that I could adapt S&S to Prime Directive on my own for my own playing, but I figured that there would be enough people who would love to see stats for Phasers Type 1, 2 and 3; Gorn and Kzinti; Burke class Frigates and Condor Dreadnaughts, etc.

Maybe it's something that could be done as a supplement?

[Kathulos]

Keeping S&S an independent game is, imo, the best approach.
As mentioned above, there is a lot of in game history and background to Prime Directive. Having run several ST games in the past I know that the background can limit or hinder the creativity of some GM's.
With S&S the SM does not have that baggage being brought to their table. The history is open enough that they can create their ownhistory, their own drama, their own universe to present to their players.

[gentleman john]

There is more than enough PD and SFB stuff out there without adding more to it. Trust me, I own large quantities of SFB. You can never have too many drones ...

While S&S can be used to do SFB, a word of warning - in the past the ADB have been very protective of their rights. This is probably because Paramount have been equally protective of their property, and SFB is only too much aware of the unique situation of their licence (it comes from Franz Joseph Designs, not Paramount).

[aramis]

Technically, ADB's license comes from Paramount now - courtesy of the Courts.

ADB is exceedingly picayune about IP in general - not just their own, either, but especially about their own or Paramount's. See, there isn't much that can cost ADB that license those being failure to pay royalties, exceeding the license, and encouraging violations of Paramount's IP. See, the license they have doesn't time-expire.

This means that, coupled with the explicit no-sublicense clause, they have to be very careful.

As for variations on PD... with the rerelease of PD 1st Ed, and no Trek on TV to speak of, the version list at present is:
PD One (Prime Directive 1E) - PDF only. used print available
GPD - PDF, Print
PD20 - d20 SRD based. PDF only now, IIRC. Used Print available
PD20M - d20 Modern SRD based. PDF, Print
MGTPD - Expansion for the Mongoose Traveller core rules. Will be PDF and Print.

The vaporware editions:
d6 system - keeps losing authors. Due to freelancer based commission on completion, every new author is a new attempt from scratch. Much desired, since d6 Star Wars is pretty close to the right tone.

GPD is pretty popular - for a GURPS book, at least. Then again, Trek of any flavor was one of the most requested GURPS expansions since 1987... when SJG first asked. And, SVC does play GURPS.

SVC's approach is "If it doesn't cost much, and makes as much back as it costs, why not?" By "doesn't cost much" he means "just paying the freelancer to adapt the GPD books" and print runs. This has lead to somewhat less popularity for GPD and PDd20/PDd20M... people are holding out for systems they can stand. SFB fans tend to vary widely in RPG tastes.

PD One is rereleased in PDF for the few of us who love it. Then again, it's the edition getting the love on RPG Geek. SVC blames its failure on being a custom system - I blame its failure based on bad marketing and not providing for ship crew characters and ship-to-ship in RPG-mode - but mostly just not getting the word out outside of SFB related publications. Even in the 90's - no adverts and no hype = no sales!

If the MGT-PD sells well, SVC might be willing to do a low-cost to him license deal for a S&S2 "conversions book" - one that clearly establishes the system text remains with the company, but the races and ships remain with ADB. But, for all practical purposes, it needs to be basically written on speculation to a workable draft, then taken to SVC and JS as a "Hey, this is doable." It also needs to have a significant fanbase support right off.

[gentleman john]

PD One is rereleased in PDF for the few of us who love it. Then again, it's the edition getting the love on RPG Geek. SVC blames its failure on being a custom system - I blame its failure based on bad marketing and not providing for ship crew characters and ship-to-ship in RPG-mode - but mostly just not getting the word out outside of SFB related publications. Even in the 90's - no adverts and no hype = no sales!

The only place you can get PD1e is on SJ Games' e23 site - and even then all you can get is main book. None of the supplements or adventures are available. Mind you, there is hope as you can get the older versions of SFB from there. Worth a look for historical interest.

And yes, I do agree. The only reason I ever found out about PD1e was that I was a SFB player. The game wasn't that bad for the time, and less complex than some of the other games I played. The general reaction to it was - and still is - "So it's like Star Trek, but it isn't?"

Very confusing for those not familiar.

[aramis]

The PDOne supplements have been released in PDF.

there probably won't be any new ones, but what was done for it is available.

[1970]

The only place you can get PD1e is on SJ Games' e23 site - and even then all you can get is main book. None of the supplements or adventures are available. Mind you, there is hope as you can get the older versions of SFB from there. Worth a look for historical interest.

I found PD1 books at Paizo for what I thought were good prices. I got the core book, a screen/adventure, an adventure, the Federation sourcebook, a magazine supplement and maybe something else (I'm not near my books right now) for what I thought were acceptable prices.