Ideas for 2nd Edition-era Clone Settings

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Ideas for 2nd Edition-era Clone Settings

Postby Malcadon » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:43 am

I have been looking through some old AD&D settings from the 1990s. They got me thinking "Hay, they got some neat ideas, but I'm not content with the execution." So after some mulling, I came up with the following:

A retro-clone to the old Masque of the Red Death and Other Tales book.

For those who don't know, MotRD was a supplement to the Ravenloft setting. Instead of taking place in the world of Ravenloft, it took place on Earth, in the Victorian Age of the 1890s. They replaced all the classes with modern equivalences (Soldier = Fighter, Adept = Mage, Mystic = Cleric, Tradesman = Thief). Non-Weapon Proficiencies that was an optional system and precursor to the Skill and Feat system of the 3e era, was an integral part of the overall system. Percentage-based Thieves' Ability were removed and folded into NWPs. Vancian spellcasting gave way to Spellcraft and Spiritcraft tests. The system downplays the need for Medieval weapons and armor by making guns powerful and limiting the knowledge of archaic weapons no a more specialized art. They made all sorts of changes to the core rules to better reflect the era. The problem with this rulebook is that it is not a standalone rule set, but a rule supplement.

On top of changing the name and a number of key details (like renaming "Non-Weapon Proficiencies" to "Skills"), I would came the game into a complete, standalone rulebook. I would merge Adepts and Mystics into a singe class, with some more class options. I would likely remove the to-hit system, in favor of a 3e-styled AC system, as armor is that that prominent. I might make Hit Points static, with a few bonus HPs per level.

I would change the setting to have The King in Yellow (less H P.Lovecraft, and more Robert W. Chambers) in place of iconic The Red Death figure. Countess Elizabeth Báthory de Ecsed (aka the Blood Countess) would be a prominent vampiric figure in the book, akin to how Count Dracula (Vlad III the Impaler of Wallachia) is always the go-to guy for everything vampiric. Not being bound by Hollywood's views of what Vampires are, they will not die if you stab them with a wooden tent stake (that only pins them to the earth) and are free to walk out in the sun (the disintegration Vampire was started in Nosferatu - an early knockoff Dracula).

In a nutshell, it would be a revised and complete version of Masque of the Red Death, but with stuff that would make it feel like its not a complete ripoff of it.


Another one I have been considering, is a setting inspired by Dark Sun, with some Barsoom-ness thrown in.

The rules would largely be the same, but I would change things to make them work better or speed-up gameplay. As I what to downplay the need for hot, bulky armor, I would add a progressive defense system built on Dexterity and level bonuses - basically, one gets better at dodging blows. I would rather have magic work like the Psionic system, where the characters use points and to-hit rolls, and Psionic powers (if I use them at all) would be innate abilities then as acquired spell-like abilities.

Instead if it being a generic D&D world that was ruined by overuse and abuse of magic, it was once a high-tech world that fell into decadence and the overuse and abuse of natural resources. The technology of the past could control the enviroment and even convert matter into energy like the replicators in Star Trek: TNG, but they misused it for their own comforts. All "magic items" found are actually high-tech devices, but they are so strange and alien in appearance, they are seen as supernatural in nature. There are powerful god-like entities in the form of strange glowing orbs (think Loc-Nar from Heavy Metal the movie). They are machine brains form the past who were built to serve man, but rule over people like insane god-kings. They are formed around temples and use their priests to control people. By themselves, they are defenseless, but they grant powers to those who serve them well. Those who are granted their powers are called Sorcerers.

You will not see any Tolkienesque races or mythological creatures in this world. Creatures would have a Barsoomian look about them, with multiple limbs and almost alien features. People would travel under the sun bundled-up like Jawas or Tusken Raiders to survive the heat. But homes and communities have ways to escape the intense heat. They are still hot inside, but they are remarkably cooler then the extrema heat of the outdoors. Once inside people remove their grimy, dusty, sun-baked robes. Underneath their robes, they have leather straps and loops to hold their gear. Beyond that, they are nudists, and the art will reflect this. Like in Dark Sun, everyone would be at least a first level fighter. Dueling and horror would be a normal facet of life, and combat is geared around highly agile maneuvers.

In a nutshell, this would be an mature Dark Sun clone, but without all the shoehorned high fantasy elements, and few, if any psionic powers.


Please don't mistake this for an actual project. I have more creativity then the energy or writing skills necessary to draft an entire rulebook based on my ideas. This is more of a wish-list of what I would love to accomplish if I had the ability to do so.
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Re: Ideas for 2nd Edition-era Clone Settings

Postby Agrippa » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:32 am

A while ago, under a different screen name, I launched a thread about vampire/general undead slaying on Giant in the Playground. Here's what I posted.

"1. This is for fighting vampires only. Take a bag of holding, if you have one, and start filling it with large quantities of small pebbles, grain, rice or any thing else incredibly small. Then when you face the vampire, or a group of vampires, throw the bag of holding at one of the vampires, as long as he or she has a bladed weapon drawn. If you're lucky, the vampire will try to stop the bag of holding by swinging his or her sword/other blade. If all goes according to plan the vampires will spend their time counting individual pebbles or whatever other contents are in the bag instead of attacking you or innocent bystanders. This should give you ample opportunity to slay them without much of a fight. Just make sure you have a dedicated bag of holding with the words "against vampires only" stitched on it.

How does this work? According to some Romanian folklore vampires have an instinctive drive to count large quantities of small objects and other symptoms of obsessive compulsive disorder. Talk about unholy compulsions. :D Also if you rupture a bag of holding from the outside, all of its contents spill out instead of being lost. If you really want to make sure this works have a team mate/party member/good buddy of yours stand by at the ready with a bow and arrow, a crossbow and bolt, a handful of throwing knives or even a gun. Have your team mate shoot down the bag as it falls.

2. Rearrange the vampire's belongings. See, when someone becomes a vampire his or her very soul is warped and twisted causing descent into evil and mental illness. And to be more specific, obsessive compulsive disorder."

You bringing up a vampire hunting focused setting made me remember this. Thank you Malcadon.
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Re: Ideas for 2nd Edition-era Clone Settings

Postby Malcadon » Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:11 am

Agrippa wrote:A while ago, under a different screen name, I launched a thread about vampire/general undead slaying on Giant in the Playground. Here's what I posted.

"1. This is for fighting vampires only. Take a bag of holding, if you have one, and start filling it with large quantities of small pebbles, grain, rice or any thing else incredibly small. Then when you face the vampire, or a group of vampires, throw the bag of holding at one of the vampires, as long as he or she has a bladed weapon drawn. If you're lucky, the vampire will try to stop the bag of holding by swinging his or her sword/other blade. If all goes according to plan the vampires will spend their time counting individual pebbles or whatever other contents are in the bag instead of attacking you or innocent bystanders. This should give you ample opportunity to slay them without much of a fight. Just make sure you have a dedicated bag of holding with the words "against vampires only" stitched on it.

How does this work? According to some Romanian folklore vampires have an instinctive drive to count large quantities of small objects and other symptoms of obsessive compulsive disorder. Talk about unholy compulsions. :D Also if you rupture a bag of holding from the outside, all of its contents spill out instead of being lost. If you really want to make sure this works have a team mate/party member/good buddy of yours stand by at the ready with a bow and arrow, a crossbow and bolt, a handful of throwing knives or even a gun. Have your team mate shoot down the bag as it falls.

2. Rearrange the vampire's belongings. See, when someone becomes a vampire his or her very soul is warped and twisted causing descent into evil and mental illness. And to be more specific, obsessive compulsive disorder."

You bringing up a vampire hunting focused setting made me remember this. Thank you Malcadon.


Well, if you are going to waste a Bag of Holding, you might as well fill it with explosives, lamp oil (to shoot with a flaming arrow) or vials of Twilight-hating holy water.

Yeah, old folklore are full of old, obscure, and largely forgotten tidbits about vampiric habits and weaknesses.

Oh yeah, the reason I noted the Blood Countess Elizabeth Báthory as being a prominent figure over Count Dracula, is that O' Drac gets WAY too much of the limelight. If not her, then I would use Carmilla — a fictional vampiress that predates Bram Stoker's Dracula by 25 years. Plus, it would be a good advertisement — cover wise — to have a sexy vampire woman lusting after the youth and beauty of a young woman (the real Blood Countess kill many real girls to bath in their blood to maintain her own beauty) with all the blatant lesbian subtexts that goes with it. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ideas for 2nd Edition-era Clone Settings

Postby Agrippa » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:43 am

Ah yes, Carmilla, the original lesbian and or bisexual vampire. Mother of some of the weirdest and perviest vampire tropes. The Elizabeth "Blood Countess" Báthory adds a nice real world psychopathic touch to it as well. As for your weaponized bag of holding comments I have to agree with you, flamable oil is the way to go. Well, flamable oil mixed with a lot of tiny pebbles at least. The poor undead bastard will have to choose between burning his hands or not counting the pebbles. As for Twilight hate, let's just say I inspired a few freeform roleplaying threads on the topic.
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Re: Ideas for 2nd Edition-era Clone Settings

Postby Malcadon » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:51 am

Agrippa wrote:Ah yes, Carmilla, the original lesbian and or bisexual vampire. Mother of some of the weirdest and perviest vampire tropes.

And yet, people forget that Dracula was a bisexual sex-fiend akin to Dr. Frank-N-Furter. Although not a negative statement into itself, it is accurate and overlook aspect of the character. Where most (straight) guys would have an aversion to Dracula making out with other men, there are plenty of (straight) gals who find that as sexy as most guys would like to get pressed into this sexy sandwich:

Image

Regardless of gender, bisexual vampires will suck you dry for all the right and wrong reasons. ;)
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Re: Ideas for 2nd Edition-era Clone Settings

Postby Agrippa » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:48 pm

Wow, we've just taken a thread on setting clones and turned it into a disscusion of vampire weaknesses and sexuality in just the space of four post. That must be a record of some sort. I'm not sure what help I can offer, or ideas I can come up with in making 2e setting clones. I do like the idea of Ravenloft's Darklords to some extent. Though I'd probably make them more like Exalted's Deathlords in terms of prupose and scope.
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Re: Ideas for 2nd Edition-era Clone Settings

Postby Malcadon » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:52 am

Agrippa wrote:Wow, we've just taken a thread on setting clones and turned it into a disscusion of vampire weaknesses and sexuality in just the space of four post. That must be a record of some sort.

Nope. I have seen posts that goes way off topic. I have seen topics about a slight discrepancy in armor (e.g. weight vs protection) explode into talks metal bikinis, then to how chainmail and nipple rings (when you run out of fingers for any more magic rings) don't go well together, then to how Fluttershy is sweeter then Pinkie Pie, and to a semi-racist debate on cannibalism with regards to how each race tastes and how they should be prepared (should Caucasians be treated as white meat with regards to what wine you serve? ;)). Thankfully not on this forum.
Agrippa wrote:I'm not sure what help I can offer, or ideas I can come up with in making 2e setting clones.

I originally made this post out of frustration with my inability to manifest this project as easily as Dan or other retro clone producers. There is nothing really concrete here: You can ether muster up some ideas about what I propose as if you are doing it your way, or come up with your own ideas on making your own 2nd Edition-era Clone Setting. Hell, I have seen a number of OD&D fans talk about making a Spelljammer-like setting with rocketships instead of flying boats (basically, D&D meets Zathura).

Or, what about Planescape meets the Bardo Thodol (aka Tibetan Book of the Dead), where death means having to explore a labyrinthine mega-dungeon full of unearthly puzzles, tapes and monsters until you find a gateway to one of the major planes or get reincarnated into a new life (see that ghostly couple in the height of passionate love-making? Soon, they can be your new mommy and daddy!). The motto for this setting: Death is only the beginning of your life of adventure!! 8-)
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Re: Ideas for 2nd Edition-era Clone Settings

Postby Agrippa » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:01 pm

Yikes, I've never seen any online debates or discussions go quite off the rails as you have. I'm pretty lucky that way. As for actual setting ideas, I can't quite come up with anything inspired by 2nd Ed. Except a very modified version of the Darklords from Ravenloft. As I mentioned they would be more along the lines of Exalted's Deathlords. I'm also thinking of having elves be more along faeish lines with goblins serving among their footsoldiers. Think of Hellboy II: The Golden Army for reference. Magic will be prevalent among humans, but actual, fully-fleged spell casting will be rare. Your typical fire magic would be for keeping fires burning longer and with less fuel and your typical adventurer's fire magic might involve resisting intense heat and flame or igniting your weapon, fists and ammunition included, without causing it harm than conjuring gouts and blasts of fire. Basically anyone could use magic, but few can cast spells.
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Re: Ideas for 2nd Edition-era Clone Settings

Postby Agrippa » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:49 pm

I'm also thinking of making gods more prevalent in this setting. From the highest of pantheon heads to lowly gods of specific streams, forests, mills and town quarters. Even ones for local guilds. While guildmasters, mayors, governors, lords, dukes, barons, chieftans, warlords, kings and emperors are the mortal rulers of their respective realms, the gods act as these lands supernatural masters. So a town might enjoy the favor and blessings of its god, it might also enjoy the divine patronage of the god of the provance, duchy or baron it resides in, along with the kingdom's god's blessing. Godly powers are divided into to broad categories, territorial, powers that effect or depend upon the god's domain, and personal, plain old personal powers and abilities.

I can't think of any 2e setting like this though. So what do you think?
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