Wights are broken.

[Dyson Logos]

I suppose the point of using a Wight is that, if your going to use it, it better darned well be protecting something more important than some lichs dirty laundry.

I think perhaps you are underrating the value of a lich's dirty laundry.

Found in the last load of lich laundry:

[connivingsumo]

Yeah if I'm honest I'd rather outright kill a character than set them back. I have yet to use them and the idea of placing wights just so players avoid the area is aberrant to me.

Ya, that's kinda where I was at - and going w/this post, but I've read (2) posts that pose a pretty good argument. I still won't be using them (more than likely - you never know), but their arguments were solid.

PS - Dyson, love the Lich's "honey-do" list!!

[JDJarvis]

Get a cleric, holywater and some silver arrows and wights aren't that much of an issue any more. You can even set them on fire (for 1/2 damage but they do burn).

[scadgrad]

I'm of the HTFU school of RPGing. An old adage in creative writing is to create characters that the reader cares about, and then do awful things to them. Same thing with RPGs. OTOH, I don't think that level draining undead should simply appear out of the blue and there should be substantial rewards for defeating them. In my experience, the characters get back to where they were pretty quickly if they're a single class. It's particularly rough on those with steep EP tables, but meh. All the more reason to develop a good relationship with the local Lawful Religious Guild.

[Skathros]

Is it broken that you have to pay another player your hard earned $ when landing on his property in Monopoly? I think folks tend to forget that, at its heart, D&D is a game. The board is the group's imagination. Your character is the playing piece. I don't see level draining any more broken than landing on another's property.

[petespahn]

Get a cleric, holywater and some silver arrows and wights aren't that much of an issue any more. You can even set them on fire (for 1/2 damage but they do burn).

Yeah those are my thoughts too.

Pete

[connivingsumo]

Is it broken that you have to pay another player your hard earned $ when landing on his property in Monopoly? I think folks tend to forget that, at its heart, D&D is a game. The board is the group's imagination. Your character is the playing piece. I don't see level draining any more broken than landing on another's property.

I see your point; on the other hand, Is it broken that I could land on your property with a hotel, and rather than paying the rent - destroy your hotel? A bit over the top, I agree; however, if it's just part of the game, like landing on a Monopoly property - then why is there only one creature that does it?

Though there have been a couple really solid arguments against my contention that they're broken, I still hold to my opinion that they're only there to humble a player - in which case, just kill the player off and have them reroll - or stop playing with that person. Draining levels is lame and doesn't even make sense. I understand it's a "fantasy" game - I like that, but I also like common sense.

"Oh - this undead creature hit me - gosh - I forgot how to pick locks (as well)." Or "Darn! I used to be able to cast this spell... I mean I remember doing it once or twice - and here it is in my spell book but... oh well - heh - I just can't."

I just seems stupid.

[Black Wyvern]

Wraiths also drain one level when they hit and vampires drain 2 levels. So it is a power common in undead. Level draining was attributed in 1e with the undead's connection to the negative plane of energy.

[petespahn]

Does the vampire not drain levels in LL?

I think mainly it offers some diversity to damage effects.

If you're trying to rationalize it in real world terms I can maybe see an argument for the thief skills but spellcasting is already tied to mystical energy increases so its an easier explanation. Remember it's not your brain power that increases each level allowing you to memorize more spells or cast spells of higher level. If its all about memorization you should be able to do that at any level. If it's mastery of mystical energies, then I can see how that mastery can become damaged/reduced just like any other magical effect.

But mainly, if you don't like em don't use em. If they pop up in a module just change them to something else. No fuss no muss.

Pete

[petespahn]

Ack, Black Wyvern beat me to the vamp.