Why are the XP Tables Different from Classic D&D?

[Dyson Logos]

Thanks for the replies. People in the OSR community have said that game rules can't be copyrighted, just the presentation of rules, though I wonder how true this is, if Dan Proctor felt the need to fiddle with the XP and thief skill tables.

Game rules cant be copyrighted? Really? Who came up with that idea? I never heard of that. You just cant go out an sell an exact copy of someones game. Maybe after the rights expire. Otherwise what would be the point of the "open gaming license" that some RPGs have? They wouldnt need to state that if anyone could just do it.

He's right, you can't copyright the mechanics.

However, this isn't trying to work within the rules of copyright, this is attempting to work within the safe harbour of the Open Game License. This game is not *actually* based on 1981 D&D, it is based on the 3rd edition d20 SRD, with modifications to make it "feel" like it is a different game that is in turn reminiscent of the game you mentioned. If the game were to have exactly the same numbers as said game, then it would appear to be a direct rip of that game, in which case it could be challenged as a copyright violation (not that said challenge would necessarily win, but it could happen, and would do so in court), instead it is allowed to be published under the Open Game License.

As for the use of the OGL, BloodAxe, it allows for more control than copyright legislation - it allows people to use the exact same wording as a copyrighted text as long as said wording was released under the OGL, while also allowing the publisher to dictate what elements of the game are not open (such as those items that are protected by copyright, such as setting information).

[Dyson Logos]

Technically you can't copy the Magic: the Gathering card game - not because of copyright legislation, but because of trademark legislation. The "tapping" function of the game is a trademark of Wizards of the Coast.

However, you could dispute trademark in court because the CyberPunk CCG used the tapping mechanic, wasn't a WotC product, and WotC did not attempt to stop the publication of said product, thus failing to defend their trademark (which in turn can make it no longer a trademark).

On the other hand, the mechanics for Warhammer and Magic the Gathering have been used EXTENSIVELY by other publishers over the years, producing games much like those games, but not treading on the actual copyrights (which would be the cool flavour of the games - the setting, the names of creatures and so on). Hell, the mechanics of D&D have been copied within the bounds of copyright since D&D was released with games like Palladium Fantasy, Villains & Vigilantes, RuneQuest, and hundreds of others.

[Ogreking]

I think what is legal and what will get you sued are often mixed and matched. Mess with a company that has the cash to throw at a pile of lawyers and you better have the same or greater cash flow or you will lose. Look at TSR and how the company went after Gary's other rpg's. They ruined the man and his games because they could. Heck Lejendary Adventures was such a mess because the man was bending over so far to NOT get sued that it effected the rules of the game. It didn't matter that they did not really have a case.

If WOTC ever decided to go after the OSR,the OSR wouldn't stand a chance. Lucky for us there just isn't enough money in it for them and they do not want the bad press.

So while some talk about what is legal and illegal and what violates copyright laws,we should all remember the Golden Rule. He with the Gold makes the rules! We like to act and think that it doesn't matter and whats wrong or right is all that is important but all one has to do is read a newspaper or visit a courtroom for real to know that it just isn't so.

[austrodavicus]

I tend to agree with what you say Ogreking. Welcome to the forum.

[John Adams]

If WOTC ever decided to go after the OSR,the OSR wouldn't stand a chance. Lucky for us there just isn't enough money in it for them and they do not want the bad press.

You might be quite surprised at who all owns and sometimes plays OSR clone games.

[YHWH]

It's definitely not a balance thing. Seems like the LL tables are padded with garbage values, but they don't diverge from B/X in a serious way. Actually, if you just pretend the last 3 digits are all zeros in the LL tables, you more or less recreate the Basic tables.

There's even a quirk in the Dwarf table where it takes more XP to reach level 11 than it does 12 and it still stays mostly lined up with Basic.