Request for LL Digest-sized Books/PDF

[Dyson Logos]

What are the limits on what we can do? What I gather from reading the OGL is that we can use all the text and tables, but not the words "Labyrinth Lord" or any of the art from the paid version of the PDF.

That is essentially correct. What you do with the text privately isn't such a big deal, but if you make booklets to distribute (allow anyone to download, etc.) then I would ask that you not call it "Labyrinth Lord" and do a simply search and replace in the text and substitute referee, GM, whatever, instead of Labyrinth Lord. Sorry for the legalese, but there are various steps I have to take not just to maintain the LL trademark but also not to dilute the brand.

Understood. I know my way around the OGL and one of the players in my LL/AEC games was a fairly successful d20 writer & publisher so I'm using him as a reference library on how IP and OGC works.

[Aplus]

Here is a sample, which contains section 1 from the basic book. Let me know if I am on the right track, and feel free to point out any obvious noob mistakes I may have made. Any other suggestions for making it look nicer are welcome. I tried to keep it true to the actual book as much as possible though.

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B2qlP_ ... ist&num=50

"Page is not accessible"

Try this link. (I always have trouble sharing stuff on google docs)
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... Mjdm&hl=en

[Goblinoid Games]

Would it be possible for a group of fans to do the work and send you proofs for approval and keep the name? I don't really have any interest in digest sized books but as someone that is relatively new to the OSR I can say that having another set of rules out there on another site would just muddy the waters more. It took me over a year to decide that Labyrinth Lord was rule set I wanted to use. Having a digest version with a different name seems like a bad idea for all involved.

Open gaming and open game content is great. I very much support open gaming, but one of the reasons the OGL is written to protect trademarks is to help curtail competition. In other words, I can't have someone use the text I wrote, use my own trademark, and then sell books that compete with mine. The issue is that I've already provided free no-art versions for people, but there is no way I could accommodate everyone's preference for various formats. I just can't keep up with what everyone might do with the open text, so the brand has to be kept out of these kinds of efforts if the books will be distributed, especially. Sorry for any inconvenience!

[Goblinoid Games]

Just to clarify, for me publishing isn't about the money, but selling these books is what allows me to keep publishing, pay artists and writers, etc. I have no problem with people using the open text, that's what it's for, but what if someone designs booklets like this and then decides to arrange art, etc. etc. and soon you have a version of the game under my own brand that might compete with my books. That's why I have to approach it like this, but again, I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

[John Adams]

I thought about doing this myself lately and many folks have encouraged me to do so as well - publishing a digest boxed set for LL. Of course, my original thought was that this would help expand LL and get even more folks playing it.

But the more I thought about it and discussed it with my trusted publishing pals (which includes Dan), the more I realized that it would really split LL up rather than build it up. Before long, folks would just naturally be talking about how they liked the BHP or GG version of LL better. That is splitting up the brand - which Swords & Wizardry has done ( but the two main versions are pretty different in some fundamental ways) which confuses many people - some BHP products get listed under FGG or BBP sometimes.

I had even considered trying to do something that would be through/for the Labyrinth Lord Society, but it would end up with the same result.

The bottom line is that I like LL too much and respect the hours upon hours of planning, research, writing, layout, commissioning art, etc.that Dan has done to give us LL that I do not want to do anything to hinder it.


Dan has given us plenty of room to support LL. We are free to make LL modules, supplements, campaigns, etc, - but not LL player's books or Labyrinth Lord (Game Master) books. The "rules" of LL are Dan's to do with as he will - but they are not ours.

Now, if Dan ever wanted GG to produce a LL boxed set, I do know someone who could actually manufacture them pretty quickly.

[Goblinoid Games]

Well, the rules belong to everyone and all the text is open, so no worries with any of that. I was just pointing out why I was requesting the exclusion of the brand. I think what is being discussed here is very small scale to print these for a few people in this thread. We need to keep all of this in context. I think what has been proposed thus far is fine, I just wanted to clarify the PI issues.

[Black Wyvern]

Dan I certainly understand everything you said and can understand your not wanting to have to support different formats every time you release a new version. If you are not concerned then I have no business being either. Although I do agree with John Adams in principle.

[Aplus]

I've taken a stab at doing this conversion myself. However, I'm a big noob when it comes to these things, so please leave feedback, suggestions, and point out any errors you catch. If you like it and would like to see more of the content similarly converted, make a post and if there is sufficient interest, I will do my best to deliver. Thanks!

Book I: Characters (revision 0.05)

Note that I designed it with the intent of people using Adobe Reader's booklet printing functionality to print it, as that is what I have always found to be the most convenient and least confusing. If you have questions about how to do that just make a post and I'll do my best to help.

Thanks!

[Aplus]

P.S. - I did not mean any slight by not mentioning the real people behind this work (Tom Moldvay and Dan Proctor) within the document itself, I just got a little skittish with all the legalese being tossed around in this thread. Thanks again Dan for being cool about this!

[austrodavicus]

Good job Jeremy and very handy document. Having a quick look through, the only thing that jumps out at me is the title "Dwarves" which should be at the top of page 13 and is actually on the bottom of page 12. If you go ahead and produce more such booklets, I would find them useful. Thanks.

Dave