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But seriously...they do quite a bit of stuff different to claim they are not a clone. I also take the term "clone" quite literal as well. I often say that Labyrinth Lord is not a Moldvay clone...but more "similar". I agree that if you play both LL and B/X, then the experience will probably be the same. It is just that LL goes all the way to level 20 and they have race/class (if using AEC)...as the major differences. Even though Blackrazor made an expansion to B/X...these LL books could be considered expansions onto B/X as well. So I guess it is just a matter of perspective when using terms like "clone" and "OSR".

- Djeryv

Im not a giant fan of the Race is Class thing. Its usually there to keep it simple- and this is not a simple system. I like the idea of a Dwarf Cleric or Thief. Saying all Dwarves are Fighters is like saying all white people are accountants. Its silly- a race is not defined by a profession. I like the idea of "starting profesions"- Warhammer RPG does this too.

It does seem odd that they chose to go with race-as-class and that isn't my favorite thing about the pre-AD&D game. I think more than anything, though, Goodman is going for the "retro feel" more than being compatible with anything like a clone. This "feel" is also why they're using the 'weird' dice.

Of course, to me the whole idea of race-as-class is to represent the champions or ideal adventurers of that race not to imply that all members of that race are the same.

One somewhat interesting thing about demi-humans in DCC is that only those that rolled up demi-human occupations at level 0 can choose that demi-human as a class - but I didn't see anywhere that said they must. So in a way you actually would have a dwarf wizard, the race would just be flavor at that point.

Thakazum wrote:I think more than anything, though, Goodman is going for the "retro feel" more than being compatible with anything like a clone. This "feel" is also why they're using the 'weird' dice.

Either I don't fully understand randomness or these extra dice are stupid. I remember having to order dragon dice (now called polyhedral dice I guess) through places like Dragon magazine...just to get them. Some people just bought a Basic D&D set because it was easier to find that box than it was to find a pack of dice. They were just hard to get...let alone, "expect 6-8 weeks for delivery". From what I see, only a couple of companies make these weird dice. I wonder what they accomplish? If I had a table of random monsters (and I only had 14 of them), I would simply drop 2 of them or add 6 more so I can roll a d12 or d20. I wouldn't sit around wishing I had a d14. When we run into d2 or d3, we just use a d4 and/or d6 to determine those results. I guess when you look back, some probably complained about dragon dice...saying, "why not just use d6s?" I am just complaining here as I have no intention on playing the game.

- Djeryv

Yeah, looks like they've taken a lot of flak for making that choice. Goodman himself said something along the lines of "we're doing it because we like these dice". They'll also be selling a pack of them when the game launches.

Thakazum wrote:Yeah, looks like they've taken a lot of flak for making that choice. Goodman himself said something along the lines of "we're doing it because we like these dice". They'll also be selling a pack of them when the game launches.

Marketing Ploy?

Of course. He also stated that it's generated a lot of interest along with all of the debate. I kind of think that it's neat but I also mostly use web or app rollers anyway.

Yeah, I dont like the weird dice either.

I love weird dice. I wish the d12 was used more often in LL. I picked up a d30 ages ago, trying to figure out how to use it in a game. I think they are cool geometrically, statistically and used in games.

Id have to special order those weird dice.